Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

This is not meant sound harsh or unkind,or mean spirited.
How can people who have a revelation of the oneness of God and Jesus Name baptism go to Trinity churches and sit under Trinitarian pastors ?
I understand that sometimes things might arise in a local oneness church where people might have to leave their assembly.
I understand there are valid reasons where someone might have to leave their church,but is going to a Trinity church the answer ?

If I didn't have anywhere to go,I could home church.
If faced between going to a Trinity church or home church home church I believe would be my option.
I don't hate Trinitarians but it would be hard to sit under that teaching myself.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

From my experience most Trinitarians are not tri-theists. Tritheism is where I would run into a real problem. But then again, sitting still long enough while someone drones on about any topic is difficult for me - whether I agree with them or not.

I don't know what kind of question needs a "Trinitarian church" to be the answer - I'm sure there are probably many. Fact of the matter is, most of the independent types of churches that would attract someone from this crowd probably focus on Jesus Christ as Lord anyway and the whole "Trinity" thing is never a consideration.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

OK PEL but could someone from a Jesus Name background go where baptism in titles is practiced ?

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

"I'll take 'UPCI Logic' for $800, Alex."

"The answer, 'Trinitarian churches'"

*dinng!*

"What are the gates of Hell?"

"That's right!"

;)

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

Doctrinal issues bother me more than other issues. I don't mind visiting other denominations for special occasions, but I wouldn't feel comfortable making a church my "home" if I didn't agree with the core doctrines. I also wouldn't want false doctrine to influence my children.

My husband grew up Assembly of God, his dad is DEFINITELY a tri-theist. He believes there are three thrones in heaven, and gets mad if you try to say differently. Jeff is more opposed to going to trinitarian churches than I am, because he grew up that way and feels (rightfully) that God brought him OUT of false doctrine. He has no desire to go back.

I've met trinitarians who essentially believe in one God, but MOST I've encountered believe there are three separate entities/deities. Baptism is the most bothersome issue to me, though. I can't understand why everything BUT baptism is done in the name of Jesus.

For perspective, when I was growing up we fellowshipped with local Assembly of God ministers, I attended a trinitarian school, and most of my mother's side of the family is Baptist. Also, my husband is the only one in his family who isn't trinitarian. They are VERY dogmatic about it! His father once disowned him (temporarily) because Jeff quoted Isaiah 9:6 to him, and said he would rather Jeff was Catholic, Mormon or Jehovah's Witness than "Jesus-Only!" (his words--I don't agree with the idea of being "Jesus-Only.") I have found many trinitarians to be more pushy and defensive about their doctrine than we are about ours. Not across the board, obviously, but many of them are.

Personally, I don't care if people don't understand what they say they believe--if the church overall supports a false doctrine, then I don't want to be part of it. I wouldn't attend a oneness church that openly taught, pushed and practiced false doctrine, so why would I attend a trinitarian church?

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

Personally, I was upset to see baptisms happen at my former COGIC church.

The Pastor told me he indeed used the titles, but also used the name of Jesus.

"I baptize you in the Name of of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, in the Name of Jesus."


I witnessed his baptisms. That's not what he did.

I won't even speak about the dishonesty.

I'm speaking about how that well intentioned folks were lead to practice a Biblical tenet in a way that is not Biblical. It was saddening more than maddening.

Attending the COGIC church I did was not my first choice, but after witnessing the baptisms, I really didn't think I could stay there much longer.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

I go to a "trinity" church.
I've be going there since the spring of 2006.
Before that I went to a Vineyard for almost 14 years.

I am a one-stepper so therefore, in my opinion, these folks are as "saved" as anyone.

As far as the teachings of "trinity" and "oneness" there is no single oneness teaching and no single trinity teaching. All of our explanations of our triune God are pretty much the same. I realize there are some among oneness who believe Jesus became God at His baptism and ceased being God before He could die on the cross, and among trinitarians there may be those who believe in three thrones, but I would think these are the exceptions on either end of the scale. The oneness and trinity folks I am familiar with both seem to believe pretty much the same.

Folks in oneness and trinity churches both receive the Holy Ghost Baptism.

It is my personal opinion that the condition of the heart of a person is more important than the amount of water or the words spoken during the ritual of baptism.

Tomorrow, Wednesday, and Friday I will be in meetings with "trinity" folks who love the Lord, who speak with tongues, and who are sincerely serving Him. I consider them my brothers and sisters and members in the Body of Christ.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

I don't considered Holy Ghost filled Trinitarians to be hell bound.
I'd invite them to my house.
If I had children, they could play with their children.
But there is a difference in doctrine, a clear difference.

Baptism in Jesus Name is correct-- commanded and practiced by the New Testament Christians.

Baptism any other way that leaves out the Name of Jesus is incorrect.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

LOL.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

Obviously, they could. But how would they feel? How would they interact? How long would they last if they started rocking the boat?

I think that for someone to actually support a ministry that dunks (or anything else) people in water using "the titles" and to participate in a full Christian fellowship with them would probably have a view of baptism and/or the name of Jesus that is compatible with such a practice anyhow.

So I guess, they'd be in a place where they "fit in."

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

It may seem strange, Bro. Scott, but the focus in most independent churches is not on the same issue as in oneness churches. The focus where I go is on knowing Jesus and growing relationship with Him, and being light, salt and poured out wine in our world. Having community with other believers, so that the light of the "Good News" shines is our focus. Such overt obession on technicalities is amazing, instead of on the purpose of why Jesus came, and what He accomplished.


The perfect definition of the godhead is just not the focus of scripture nor the major purpose of God in the earth, OP's have made it the focus.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

I confess to enjoying church of Christ hymn-sings and gospel meetings... :sorry But I couldn't make it my home.

-Bro. Alex

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

There are alot of different reasons why someone who believes Oneness doctrine would choose to go to a church that considers itself trinitarian. In my case, I do because there is no way in the world that Walt would be comfortable in an Apostolic church. Not because of the doctrinal differences. For him, like for most trinitarians, the doctrinal differences aren't even an issue. What would make him uncomfortable is the demonstrative worship. He is just much more subdued when it comes to his mode of worship.

And because I strongly feel that worshipping together with my family is important, I am not uncomfortable attending the church that we attend. IF Walt should ever decide that he would be comfortable in an Apostolic church, then yes, for sure, I would go with him. But until (if ever) that day comes, I will stay put where I am.

I have had very long conversations with our pastor regarding both Oneness/Trinity and baptism in Jesus' name/baptism in the titles. He knows exactly where I stand on both. And frankly, we are on exactly the same page as far as Oneness/Trinity goes. I do not believe we will see three thrones in heaven and neither does he. When he explains what he believes regarding the Godhead, he is almost quoting exactly the things that I was taught for years and years in the UPC. And as far as baptism goes, I've listened as he baptizes. I've heard him say, "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ". I asked him if someone wanted to be baptized just in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, would he do it? His answer was "Absolutely!"

So, see, you can't really put all trinity people in a little box and throw them out.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

I wouldn't be baptized any other way but the name of Jesus Christ but I find it hard to believe that if someone is baptized in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the holy spirit buried with Christ in baptism is hell bound. JMHO

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

Sorry Brother Scott,
I just realized your topic wasn't on baptism. I guess by the time I got through reading the post, that's where my brain was.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

We were attending a "Trinity" church because there was no other option for us. We were pleased to hear the pastor who had come out of the Methodist church when he received the Baptism and started his own church baptize in the formula "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ"....that appeased my husband who is a three stepper and no room for anything else type person:largehalo...that being said, he is not judgmental against others but just feels that for him that is important to put it mildly! Anyway we had been attending there for about 2 years and were happy for the most part until we heard that the pastor said while preaching that "Jesus is the second person in the Godhead and don't let anyone tell you any different":nah. Well that ended our time there real fast, Hubby could not handle that at all. So that was our experience for what it's worth.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

Good post!

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

So a sinner is intercepted by Jesus, has a life transforming conversion, repents calling on the name of the Lord, and determines to follow Jesus forever. He gets baptized... Jesus is preached and prayers are prayed in Jesus name. The baptism occurs - the pastor quotes Jesus (Matt. 28:19) word for word and the new convert goes under... He comes out of the water glorifying God and thanking Jesus for salvation.

Judgement day arrives. Will the LORD say, You prayed in my name - even at the baptismal service, yet my name was not spoken at the precise time of baptism... you are out on a technicality"???

Get real.

Bottom line - It is not as clear cut as many would like for it to be.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

Por favor! People will do more than that in Jesus' name, and He will say "depart from me..."


Scott,
I visited with the Presbyterians when I was mad at the U-Con movement!

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

I believe you got it, brother. I agree totally.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

Yeah, god is a big bully, right? NOT!

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

Right, Jesus didn't mean wot He said...

Please use an uppercase "g" when you type "God."

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

I wasn't speaking of the One True God.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

I believe you are right...

I believe that doing all in the name is as following the example of...under the authority of Jesus Christ... as we walk the example he led...we are doing as he did and truly have the understanding of the name.

I would hate to ruffle some feathers... but there will be those who baptized physically in the "name of Jesus" who did not follow his example.... who did not live according to his words... actions that he lived...the example he left for us to follow... and they will hear those words of "depart from me"

Some token, there will be those who did all to follow that example as you have stated... will possibly have a clearer understanding of one God... live the example Jesus lived... aka doing all in the name of Jesus.. who will hear "well done my faithful servant"


Do I believe in being baptized in Jesus name... absolutely... but I can't and will not judge someone else's experience... I have enough on my plate keeping up with trying to live according to his word...

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

I agree.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

Oneness doctrine is very important to me. At present I could not see myself going to a Trinity Church. I was there for the first 6 years of my walk. Having said that I put forth this scenario.

Although I feel the doctrine of who Jesus is is the most glorious and wonderful teaching there is it is nonetheless NOT the only teaching given to us.

For example if a Trinity Church moved in close to where I live and they lets say believed in the post trib rapture, soul sleep, the annihilation of the wicked and taught perfection and holiness topped off with love in the body I would possibly be tempted to check it out.

Why? Simply because of the weight of truth that would be there. Not that it would be what I wanted ideally but there is no Oneness Church that I am aware of within 500 miles of me teaching these things that I embrace.

Could I be silent about Oneness? No so it probably would not work!

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

Then who is this "god" that is not a bully?

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

He is the true God, the bully is the god made in the image of many traditional religionist.

I get your point, I could worded that a little better.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

This sums up my feelings exactly! As for myself though, I wouldn't want to have been baptized any other way than in Jesus Name but I am not putting everyone else in hell over a different formula.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

Very well said.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

a generation from now a lot of folk posting in this thread would be asking the following question:

What is the doctrine of Oneness?

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

Very good reason to not do it. How much of what we and our doctrinal Fathers have fought for would be lost as if it were nothing?

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

MtD, for many here they are perfectly comfortable with that. For others, it is somewhat bothersome but a price they are willing to pay to get out from under the confines of traditional OP teaching on sanctification.

What ever the reason, the simple fact is most of those here who identify with the term Apostolic but who reject Apostolic churches will have children who may know the term, may understand some aspects of those "old" doctrines but they will in turn raise children who are part of mainstream christianity and many wont be any form of "pentecostal" at all.

we can all judge if that is a good thing or not. I suspect many will judge it to be a good thing. But this is the simple truth.


I am reminded of the old saying. Becareful what you wish for. You just might get it.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

I would hope it doesn't get that drastic,brother... but the way things are going in some circles, who knows?

Obviously there are some who think that as long as you "love the Lord", your doctrine doesn't matter that much.
However, compromising with those who dont preach the truth is not a good thing. I've seen people start down that road, and its sad to see where some of them have ended up.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

I think it is exactly that drastic. ive had conversations with kids (parents present) that proves my point. Real life conversations not internet conversations.


but even here I suspect that if you were to get some of our friends to be honest, they will tell you I am accurate.

Many seem to be avoiding this subject like the plague.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

Yes I can see it. Many people always ask us where is the historical evidence for Oneness? Well after a while apparently many of its believers tired of persecution and hardship for its sake either gave in to Trinitarianism or perhaps departed from Christ altogether.

When its truth began to emerge in great power in the early 20th century it was seen as a great light! Now many years later it is seen as something you can simply step over like it were nothing at all to many in our Churches. Perhaps a lot of them have really never had the revelation so its not an issue to them

On the other hand I have been saying for about 29 years Oneness Churches have been running people off in multitudes because of some unscriptural dress code teachings. So it is partly their own fault if the joy of walking in truth is fading among them.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

I see your point there. But people who are in Oneness, and take issue with the dress code issues, can find a Oneness church that doesnt have the dress code issues. In most such cases I've seen, there are several such churches believers could choose from, if they want to find them.

I dont think "dress code issues" should be an excuse for someone changing from Oneness to Trinitarian -- although some have made it an excuse. I just dont buy it though. When I see people leave Oneness churches and make wholesale doctrinal changes, I have to wonder how solid those people were on their doctrinal positions in the first place.

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

Hey, I'd like to add that there are some "Church of God" churches here in Florida, that are in fact "Holiness"

I am Apostolic, however my best friend is COG, and there church is holiness just like Apostolic churches. There are probably more out there...

Just thought I'd share....

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

But are they oneness?

Re: Going To Trinity Churches ?
 

Its true there are NOW some Churches to choose from without dress code issues. For many years that was very rare. Even now there are no Oneness Churches in my region of Kentucky that I am aware of where these are not taught.

By no means do I advocate giving up Oneness doctrine for Trinity. That would certainly be a fall.