Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

And God said,See I have given you every herb that yields seed which on the face of all the earth,and every tree whose fruit yields seed;to you it shall be food.GEN.1:29 NKJV

Were Adam and Eve vegeterians ? Since God gave them every herb and and every tree that yields fruit for food,did they eat meat ?

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

No!

Humans and animals didn't eat meat until after the flood.

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Eat more Beef.......... chicken is for whimps

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

I don't think so.

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Adam and Eve probably didn't eat any meat, but animals sure ate other animals.

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Do you think that animals ate other animals before Genesis chapter 3?

Do you think that if Adam saw animals eating other animals he might have tried eating animals also?

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Trying to be literal with Genesis 1 - 11, will lead to impossible problems with the the known natural history of our world. People are dropping out of the faith in droves because religionists demand a strict adherence to a theology of Bible Fundamentalism that is only about 200 years old.

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Did Adam and eat meat? Did Adam and Eve meet? Did Adam Ant eat meat?

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

In the beggining they only ate that which came from the earth.

Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Even the animals ate only vegetation as well. That is why in the end time it is going back to the original form in which the Lion will lie down with the Lamb.

Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

After the flood God Gave the commandment to eat animal flesh for food. It is the common belief that the earth was a green house in which there was vegetation all around the earth from pole to pole. In this there was enough vegetation to sustain even the dinosaurs. Recently they discovered the wooly mamoth in Siberia which had tropical vegetation in its stomach. Where did this come from when Siberia is a frozen wasteland.

Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
Gen 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.


This is called the green house effect. Whether it was an ice layer as some believe or just clouds the effect was an even temperature all around the world. Thus no need for clothing or protection from the suns uv rays.

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Gen 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Gen 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

How does one jump from the other. The 'promise' was to Adam, not to the animals, as far as "green things" went.

Many animals are just too well designed as meat eaters and for predation to have EVER eaten anything but what they eat now.

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

No , Adam and Eve did not eat meat .

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Here's a test for our literal Scientific Creationists friends and supporters of ICR. It's often stated that before the Fall there wasn't any death or aging. Here's the question:

How is it that Adam would have never aged or died?

(Trust me, this ties into the question because this is an important detail that must be covered.)

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

No takers? lol

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

You won't ever get any here. "Apostolics" of this day and age simply clench their eyes tightly shut and play a game of "Just Pretend..."

For some reason they are completely sold on the teachings of Fundamentalist Baptists in this area of thought - but they'll send those same Baptists to hell at the drop of a hat. It makes no sense... but then again, I guess that was your point.

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Then someone has to answer for them! It's only fair. I'd take a stab, but, sadly, my imagination is on the blink, today. I got nothin'. ;)

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

The typical answer for those who believe in a literal interpretation is that the earth had a vapor sheild that sheilded it from the Sun's radiation, this, they say, contributed to Adam's immortality and lack of aging. Once man fell this layer began to thin and this vapor canopy actually was a source of water for the flood.

Now...if you want to be a strict biblicist one must find the "biblical" sourse of Adam's immortality. The Scriptures say,

Genesis 3:22-24
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

The implication is that biblically speaking Adam's immortality and agelessness was predicated to his access to the tree of life...not some vapor canopy made up by Creationists to "sound scientific".

Now, if one were to take a strictly LITERAL approach we have to ask... did every animal on earth also have access to this tree of life? If not, we have to assume that they lived and died as they do today. The notion of there being absolutely no animal death prior to the fall is then a thin argument. If animals died and ate other animals before the fall...it's conceivable that Adam too may have eaten a stake or two!

So there ya have it... I've demonstrated that Adam may have indeed eaten meat. :lol

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

And sunlight isn't the only thing that ages us. ;)

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Yes without access to the tree of life came the loss of immortality.

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Literally?

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I personally believe there was a literal tree of life,and Adam and Eve could eat of every tree except one.
I am aware that the scriptures do use symbolic imagery,and not everything in the word is literal,but at the same time we must not make literal things be symbolic,neither should we make symbolic imagery be literal,that's where diligent study and prayer come in.
The scriptures use should both symbolic imagery,as well as being literal in places.
Something could be literal in the OT.and symbolic in the NT.

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

I don't believe that death entered the world until Adam sinned.

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

However, this is talking about the deaths of men--it is possible that eternal life was only a factor for humans. I tend to believe that there was no death for anyone or anything. A "lion lying down with the lamb" type of scenario. JMO

If death entered the world upon Adam's sin, then the long earth theory has a problem. It isn't the gap theory...that's the one that supposes there was a gap between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2, between God's initial creation and the rest of creation. (In which dinosaurs lived and died, and Satan fell?) Anyway...the OTHER theory, which I can't remember the name of, alleges that the thousands (or millions/billions) of years it took God to get from day 1 to day 6 is where all the fossils came from. All the animals/organisms who lived and died during that time. However, if death entered the world with Adam's sin, there is a contradiction, because he was created last.

OR, death was always a factor, except for man--until sin.

I will say this, about this thread, and a few others--those of you who do NOT take a literal view of creation very quickly cut short conversation or open dialogue when you take a superiority complex with your own points of view.

There is NO good evidence of evolution, first of all. Mutation WITHIN species--yes. Evolution from one species to another? Not at all. And ESPECIALLY not naturally. Man's attempts to manipulate evolution in the lab have ended badly, to put it mildly. Not only is the process not observable, it isn't repeatable, recordable or even mildly supported by scientific evidence. That makes it BAD science.

Of course, fairness demands that we make the same assertion about creation--from a non-faith perspective, it is just a theory. There is MORE evidence supporting an orderly, deliberate creation of the earth than not.

In my opinion, in order to support certain views, one must ignore scripture, and that is never acceptable. It is necessary to search scripture to find what one should believe, and THEN search for evidence to support what is presumed by faith to be true. It is problematic and a flawed approach to decide what one believes, whether based on scientific research or not and then search scripture for support of that belief, OR to try to explain scripture away because a scientific study doesn't align with scripture.

I firmly believe that ALL matters, scientific or not, can be weighed with scripture. If the matter contradicts scripture, then I will chalk it up as "undetermined" or "unknown", but I will not ignore or explain divinely inspired scripture to support a study written by a fallible human.

As far as the specifics go--there are lots of theories, there are lots of debates, and my mind isn't made up about every little detail--but I have examined SOME issues, and I'm smart enough and knowledgeable enough about science to know when I'm being fed stupidity enmeshed in big words and scientific terms meant to manipulate the listener or reader into agreeing or feeling stupid if they disagree.

Science is actually fairly simple. :)

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Sure. I was just "pretending" the other day when Hannah and I were studying cells and DNA and all the related tangents. We studied in great depth for a couple of weeks, created models, studied how DNA strands unzip, zip, etc. etc., and we found NOTHING that supports evolution, and quite a bit that directly contradicts it. We didn't close our eyes to ANYthing. I am not afraid to read articles that support evolution. I just find it hilarious that none of them have any real facts to offer--just the opinions of the author viewing the evidence through the evolution-colored glasses allowing for no other conclusions' validity. THAT is playing a game of "just pretend." Just pretend God doesn't exist. Just pretend it isn't possible. Just pretend we know what we're talking about. Just pretend that the emperor is wearing clothes. :coffee2

I'm not sold on the teachings of Fundamentalist Baptists--I'm sold on truth. Whatsoever is true, that is what I'll think on. If something contradicts God's Word, it's simply not true. That isn't pretending, pel. That's putting my trust where it belongs. The world, its philosophies and its knowledge still doesn't have all the answers. When I don't have an answer, I look to scripture. I don't read National Geographic and take everything at face value. But I do take God's Word at face value.

I guess if you don't accept God's Word as infallible, absolute and irrefutable, it causes a problem with reasoning from the get-go.

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

And isn't it fun, sorting it all out? :thumbsup

There's a principle of Bible interpretation, something like this: if it can be taken literally, take it literally. Problem with this is the definition of "can". Everything can be taken literally, with enough magic thrown in (and a lot of folks seem to think it's their duty to do so), so it's not much help in coming to agreement among believers. (Except, maybe, among the "everything-can" crowd.) And it doesn't help bring skeptics like me into "The Truth".

In practice, the approach for some seems to be: if it's too absurd to be taken literally, then it must have been symbolic. "Absurd" is in the eye of the beholder, of course, so it has the same problem, maybe to a smaller degree. But another problem with this (IMO) is that there is almost always a lot of different symbolic interpretations possible (and some of them are too absurd for some to believe!). So everyone picks the ones they like best, and then the fighting starts. :winkgrin

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Things like trees clapping their hands can't be literal,whereas a vigin shall conceive did literally happen.
The bible is in essence an eastern book ,and reading it with a western mind causes us to misunderstand certain things.

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Right...but a virgin conceiving is impossible!!! Therefore, according to the logic of some, we must find a natural, scientific explanation for what happened in order to reconcile scripture with human understanding.

I reject that approach to scripture. :foottap

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Can too! ;)

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Yes, the Bible's focus is mankind. God didn't create immortal animals and require Adam to need the tree of life. The tree of life was the ONLY source of immortality.

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But this was just an fun theological exercize. lol

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You didn't notice that Hannah had DNA that unmistakenly identified her as a descendant of yours? And that your DNA unmistakenly identified you as a descendant of your parents? And so on... until we look at Hannah's DNA and that of a chimpanzee and find that she and the chimp have the same unmistakable markers showing a common descent - the same kinds of pattern that shows she's your daughter shows she (and you and I) and chimpanzees are descended from the same parents.

And how do you get "evolution = no God"?
With all due respect, to insist upon a worldview that simply isn't real and then to blame that view upon a 200 year old tradition of Bible Fundamentalism and accuse everyone who disagrees with you of impiety isn't just unfair - it's frankly delusional.

Every geneticist who looks at the same DNA molecules that you say you've looked at "sees" biological evolution and sees the DNA as unmistakable proof of this fact. And they do so at some personal risk - but there it is.

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Actually, it happens all of the time. It's just that the odds of it happening among humans are so improbable that if (and when!) it did happen it would be "miraculous."

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

What? What about my previous post would make you think I DIDN'T get those facts? LOL!!!!! Of course I get that.

Similar patterns do not show common descent necessarily.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v17/i1/DNA.asp

Do you know how patently impossible it is for a species with 23 pairs of chromosomes to mutate or evolve from a species with 24? More importantly, do you have any data that supports any process similar to this miraculous claim being reproduced in a lab?

I never said that evolution=no God. :) I believe that evolution=a stupid theory that scientists have just accepted as true and go about all their research with that in mind. It creates a skewed result. Objectivity is good. Of course, I am not objective, because I view everything through the glass that God created the world. ;)

I do believe that some evolutionary theories are false simply on the basis that they contradict scripture. It is possible to skew facts in such a way to support evolution, and in such a way that they contradict scripture, but if those facts were lined out simply and logically, they would do neither.

I'm not delusional. Did I blame a view on a 200 year old tradition of Bible Fundamentalism, or did you do that? You realize that evolution is a relatively new concept, too, right?

And I didn't accuse anyone of impiety. I'm saying that if you don't accept scripture at face value, and I do, then our views can't help but be different, as well as our line of reasoning. Much like speaking to someone who doesn't believe in God. Unless you start with faith in a divinity at the very least, there is no good foundation for discussion.

Pelathais...tsk, tsk, tsk. Your first statement alone is unscientific in nature. It's known as a "universal negative." You cannot equivocally state that "every geneticist" does anything of the sort, because you simply have not read the studies of, nor observed or made contact with every geneticist.

How is the existence of DNA, which is basically just a set of instructions for each organism, "unmistakable proof" of the "fact" of biological evolution?

And there is NO personal risk for geneticists to support evolution. The personal risk is there for those who reject it.

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

It does? Other than conception being manipulated in a clinic, how does a "virgin" conceive, and how does it happen "all of the time?" The moment a "virgin" takes on the act required TO conceive, she ceases to be a virgin.

Obviously we are still discussing humans here...aren't we?

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

"... by evolutionists themselves..." That's because "Creationists" have failed to contribute anything meaningful to the scientific discussion. And at the end of the article you cite - we still find scientists whose understanding of genetics leads them to conclude that chimpanzees and human beings are rather closely related and that they most certainly do share a common ancestor.

So, your link to AIG actually proves my point.
You are question framing here, apparently assuming humans evolved from chimpanzees. No one but Creationists make this assertion.

There are two main ways in which chromosome number have been observed to change during speciation - polyploidy and chromosome fusion. The result is either more or in the case of fusion, fewer chomosomes in the descendants.

The primary difference genetically between humans and chimps is a case of chromosomal fusion that took place somewhere along the hominid line. The result is that we have fewer chromosomes than our nearest "cousins."

As far as "in the lab" here's a short list:

Speciations Involving Polyploidy, Hybridization or Hybridization Followed by Polyploidization.
Plants
Evening Primrose (Oenothera gigas)
Kew Primrose (Primula kewensis)
Tragopogon
Raphanobrassica
Hemp Nettle (Galeopsis tetrahit)

Animals
Housefly
Apple Maggot Fly
Gall Former Fly (Eurosta solidaginis)
Flour Beetles (Tribolium castaneum)
Lab Rat Worm, Nereis acuminata ... details are here.
When you said: "THAT is playing a game of "just pretend." Just pretend God doesn't exist. Just pretend it isn't possible," you equated evolution with atheism.
Natural Selection as an explanation for evolution is relatively recent. Evolution itself in one way or another actually goes back to the ancient Greeks.
So again, you make the mistake of equating evolution with atheism?
I did generalize. However, the statement, though a generalization, does stand on its own merits. Hannah will not be able to continue her study of genetics past the secondary level without the tutelage of an evolutionary biologist.
The DNA is a template for making proteins. When we take a step back and view an organism's genome as a set of instructions for the organism's development we see the differing degrees of relatedness and unrelatedness among the organisms on our planet. We see that all known organisms share a common descent from a common ancestor.
People are shut out of their churches even today because they accept scientific conclusions to explain the natural world. My own experience follows this pattern.

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Uh... no. http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...cons/icon7.gif Unless there's any truth about that one guy in the Enquirer - but then I'm too squeemish to look into that. http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...cons/icon9.gif

However, the process of parthenogenesis (virgin birth) is commonly seen in nature. This has led me to conclude that it could happen in "higher" forms like mammals and even humans, though it is so improbable that if it were to occur you would call it "miraculous." Thus, I end up making a statement of faith regarding the birth of Jesus Christ.

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Wouldn't that be, essentially, a natural clone, and therefore a female baby?

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The improbablity of such an event as the virgin conception of Jesus Christ isn't the only hurdle. Like I said, I'm making a faith statement.

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

According to the Bible people or animals did not eat meat until after the flood .

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

Yeah, I caught that. Just curious, is all.

Re: Did Adam And Eat Meat ?
 

According to the bible PEOPLE didn't eat meat -most likely not until after the flood but definitely not until after the fall.