Women speaking in church
 

I heard this guy on the radio today speaking and he made the most ridiculous statement I believe I have ever heard!!

He was talking about Paul telling the women to be quiet in the church. He said that that verse is smack dab in the middle of a whole chapter of Paul teaching about tongues in the church (mind you, this guy obviously believes that tongues are wrong for today). So his interpretation of this is that the women in Paul's day had gotten out of hand and were speaking in tongues one right over top of another without no interpretations and were completely out of order in doing so. And that Paul was telling them that they needed to stop talking in tongues at all.

Then he said, "If you notice that even in the tongues movement today (that's the Pentecostal people of today he is talking about), at least 90% of them are women. Very few men become part of those churches or speak in tongues" Hello??? I believe the man should visit one of "those churches" before he makes a blanket statement as ridiculous as that!!!

Re: Women speaking in church
 

:toofunny

I heard a Baptist preacher read this text to his church this past Sunday morning. Didn't want to go there in any way, shape or form. LOL!

Here's the KJV:

This is how he read it:

:toofunny

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Well I don't see it like that I do beleive that he was telling the women to be quiet in the cor church and stop talking for some reason. I don't think it had to do with tongues but he did clearly tell them to keep quiet..

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Stupidity runs rampant.

Re: Women speaking in church
 

BAD WOMEN, speaking out of turn again! :foottap

Ask your husband if you can speak again! Definently don't talk in church!

:ursofunny

Seriously, this verse has been taken out of context so much! We probably will never know what Paul meant!

I wonder what Sister Alvear will say?

Should be interesting!

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Another interesting subject where many Pentecostals want to have it both ways. They claim they don't take cultural relevency into consideration when dealing with New Testament scriptures but yet do so when it comes to the verses admonishing women not to teach.

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Man you are harder than I am!

We all know that really we are dealing with a rhetorical problem, as...

It is impossible to ever get women to be quiet in church!!!:ursofunny

Never seen one yet that could!

Lord bless you women, why, if it wasn't for you gals we wouldn't have anything to preach against!:thumbsup

Re: Women speaking in church
 

TJJJ,

If you refuse to consier the cultural circumstances of Paul talking to the church about women's hair then you must refuse to consider any cultural circumstances for this admonition. It is quite clear;

1 Corinthians 14:34 (King James Version)

34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

Re: Women speaking in church
 

YEP, I agree CC1 that is why our women don't speak in any place of authority in the church while we are in service. Sing, prophetic word, tongues and interpretation, testimony etc... and that is it. They are to be quiet. Either it is relevant or not. Paul basis his points on God law and natural order. Can't have it both ways.

Re: Women speaking in church
 

I understand where you are coming from. So would it be fair to say that if you feel like women should have long hair, according to that scripture, then they should also be quiet?

Is that YOUR position?

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Absolutely. If you want to ignore that the scriptures about women's hair were dealing with a particular cultural issue dealing with the bald headed temple prostitutes then you must ignore the cultural context here as well.

Heaven forbid that anyone would look at some of these things in the epistles as examples of how to deal with issues rather than applying their answers to their particular issues to us today.

What gets lost is that important distinction between moral law which does not change and cultural circumstances which do.

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Interesting perspectives.

I was just mainly giving the good sisters a hard time who started the thread.

I do think the movement is going through some transitional pains where things are being reexamined in different lights.

I still remain a ultracon!:thumbsup

Re: Women speaking in church
 

How do they sing, speak in tongues, etc. and be quiet at the same time?

Re: Women speaking in church
 

AMEN!!!:heart:heart

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Let's look at Paul's entire point....

I Corinthians 14:34-35
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Remember, for the first 200 to 300 years of Christianity Christians gathered in homes not church buildings. It was a faith of the home and hearth, not temples like the pagans. In these meetings two or at most three elders would lead the teaching, and if anything was revealed to one who was sitting by the elders would give him turn to speak, all were able to prophesy in turn. What was happening in these small meetings is that women (who were traditionally uninformed about religious teachings) were interrupting asking questions about the things being taught, and as a result side tracking the teaching. So Paul admonishes that the women be silent in the church gatherings so as not to upset the teaching. Please note this wasn't a letter written to the church in general, but to the Corinthian church addressing specific issues in the Corinthian church as mentioned by Chloe in Chloe's letter to Paul.

Women were indeed able to prophesy in the church, for Paul himself said...

I Corinthians 11:5
5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

It's really pretty clear if you think about it. Even today if women, or anyone else, stopped a teacher to ask a bunch of questions in the middle of a lesson we'd tell him to be quite and ask someone later after the service.

One of the problems in Corinth was that their women were rude and immodest.

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Aquila The Hun,

You just proved my point. You took the cultural circumstances of the day into consideratoin when appying that scripture. Yet most Oneness Pentecostals refuse to do so with any other scriptures and claim they don't at all despite this clear example.

Re: Women speaking in church
 

LOL!!! Good question.

Re: Women speaking in church
 

I was under the impression that you believe women should be totally silent in church, not teaching or prophesying. lol

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Obviously you don't know my wife!:sad

Re: Women speaking in church
 

The point is that this man was not saying that women should be totally silent in the church. He was saying that the problem was that women were taking over the church with their speaking in tongues. And that in today's Pentecostal movement, "if you will notice" (he says), over 90% of those in the tongue talking group are women. By the time he was finished, you felt like what he was saying is that:

1) Women are inferior to men intellectually
2) The Pentecostal movement is made up of primarily women
3) Therefore the Pentecostal movement is made up primarily of people who are intellectually inferior.

I don't even go to an Apostolic church anymore, but even I was offended by that kind of talk!!

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Dear ones...in the light of eternity anyone that would try to close a mouth that would give the gospel story should sit and see HIM be crucified...
Some people are so full of self they cannot see the millions who perish without one gospel witness...
I am not prepared to answer this question tonight...I just had scores of people during the past 5 days kiss me and thank me in tears for coming to their land...

Re: Women speaking in church
 

I think this was one of the finest posts I have seen yet. I still can't get my mission experience out of my head... and to remember the local pastors who sacrificed and gave their all, just to try and reach somebody. Anybody!
What are we doing in North America.......

God Bless the missionaries, and God Bless the pastors!

Obrigado Sis. Alvear. Paz e becados.

Re: Women speaking in church
 

I just opened my laptop and found this "obrigada" (thank you)

Precious saints those that know me will tell you this is not humbleness but the truth and nothing but the truth...I am a person with few talents...not a singer...and I sure cannot play anything but many years ago when I was just a small child Jesus walked into me room and told me when I finished high school to go to Brazil and be a missionary...

In June I will have been a missionary in this country for 41 years...a lifetime...did people laugh? YES...Did some men say hard things? YES, Did I have money and all most thinks it takes to be a missionary? NO...Did I know a lot of people? NO...

I was barely 18 not even a month into my 18th year...I was really just a child...but the call of God from a small child like Jack London's, Call of the Wild, was always there...I lived with it...slept with it...my every waking day was the thought, I am going to be a missionary because Jesus called...

My friend, when HE really calls and it is not some emotional thing...some invented thing...it will ALWAYS be there...

I have lived a lifetime on the mission field...really with little funds…married here and raised a family here. I did not come to Brazil to get a boyfriend. I lived here 4 years and built several churches before Brother Alvear and I met. I came because Jesus called. I did not come for someone else to pay my bills or because I was a misfit or too lazy to work. I came because of a calling and that is what has kept me here through all the ups and downs of life…a calling…
I work with a people who I won many years ago and now 2nd and 3rd generations along with the new ones that come with church work fill our pews.
Just at convention some of the pastor’s figured since my coming to Brazil over 10 thousand souls in our work alone have been baptized in the precious name of Jesus…Not that I have baptized that many but because a seed (my life) was planted in the ground here in their country.
Some of our oldest preachers that we won (some I won whn I was single) some after we married were just at our convention…Men and women with their hair snow white, their steps slow kissed me and thanked me in tears for coming to their land…
Am I a super person? Goodness no…I have faults and failures, once even suffered a nervous breakdown from carry too heavy a load too long…they were patient with me and nursed me back to health…When I cried and told them I could not carry the load any longer they feel to their faces and begged me never to leave them…
This convention our people bought our snacks, took up offering for us to make a huge trip next week to visit some of the churches in another state. They know we are passing through a hard time financially so the ones we helped many years ago have reached out to help us in our need…
A pastor and his wife both have been in our work since they were kids came to me and said, Missionary we have 2 cars one you helped us buy in times past and another older one…we know they are old but we want you and the bishop to have a car (most know bandits stole my car and stole the money from Brother Alvear’s car we had sold to buy a new one. (The motor in his had started giving us problems) We lost 2 cars at one time and have not been able to even buy a old one for us things have been so tight.
A little lady pastor (yes, I know some don’t believe in lady pastors) that takes care of 3 or 4 churches and many house meetings with her sweet helpers literally wept on my shoulders and kissed my cheeks over and over thanking me for coming to her land and telling her about Jesus…her tears wet not only her blouse but my blouse…

An elderly pastor walked by and hug me and politely kissed me on the check and said thank you for coming…many years ago I had been a midwife for his wife before they were even baptized in Jesus Name…

Dear ones…the call of God has meant more to me than derogatory marks that have been made about women preachers over the years. Has it hurt? Yes, it always hurts when you are misunderstood however HE who walked before us was misunderstood and religious men of His day tried to take the writings and understandings of Holy things of long ago and prove He was not the Messiah…
The word of God will always be used by some to tear down…to destroy but may we be builders and have the spirit of Nehemiah and add another brick to the wall…
Time and eternity will tell the real story...

Re: Women speaking in church
 

The problem is in listening to radio preachers. You will go to hell for that.

Re: Women speaking in church
 

:thumbsup That Radio is really a problem Emma...don't know what to think of our sister listening to that Radio...We are very spiritual in our community...no radios allowed...

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Margies...take that hammer and beat that radio to death...girl that is dangerous ground listening to those worldly preachers!

Re: Women speaking in church
 

good to have a little fun ...

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See, I knew if Sister A would just log on and SPEAK we would have clairty.

Now Sister, you're not in churc are you? If so, would yo have your husband type for you?:gotcha

Lord Bless

:ursofunny:ursofunny

Re: Women speaking in church
 

You are having way too much fun!!!! :toofunny

:smack - For all the ladies, of course! :toofunny

Re: Women speaking in church
 

I am not in church right now...in reality I think my husband would do just about anything for me...he would be far more quicker to defend women preachers than I am! I see no need in a woman being ordained unless it would be for some government reason...HE ordains women and so do all my sons that pastor...I have never been or felt to be ordained...
Sherri got it right when she said I live OUTSIDE the box...ha....

Re: Women speaking in church
 

My dear Sister, I am happy to see you are as spiritual as I am. Everyone should be so dedicated. :)

Re: Women speaking in church
 

I spoke at our preachers meeting at their request...taught in 2 services at their request and was asked to take up the offerings in almost every service!

What were my lessons about?
Sarah Called him lord and God told him to call her Princess...
What are real Jewels?
Inward holiness


The brothers asked me...so I took no authority over anyone...I was asked to...and obeyed...

Since the convention lasted 5 days and 4 days we had 3 services a day many people ministered to us...mine was probably the most boring...

I really liked especially 2 sermons I heard...One was how many days will it take you to get to the promise land? The other one was, What is your reaction in the furnace?

Last night God used my husband tremendously to pray for sick and call backslidders to repentance...8 backslidders returned and quite a few testified to instant healings. He also encouraged all of us harvesters to be faithful gathering in the harvest.

Other sermons were good and annoited and even one of the churches put on a skit about the difference in the home that really serves the Lord.

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Yes, I know we both have our seats reserved right beside Jesus...I do request the right side! :ursofunny

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I am so spiritual today gotta get off this internet and go eat...you folks be in prayer for Emma and me....ha

Re: Women speaking in church
 

I do enjoy this forum, immensely, if it doesn't show.

Sisters, all in good humor.

Anytime you want to :smack my posts, feel free. No harm intended!

Lord Bless

TJJJ

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Emma, do we have any communities in Poland for our friend?

Re: Women speaking in church
 

If there are, I sure hope they don't advertise on the radio cuz you two would have someone take a hammer to all the radios in Poland and bust them up! :ursofunny

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Again you miss the point of what Paul said. Read the context. There is a place for everything as God is a God of order not disorder. Women are to be quiet in the church. Paul just talked about women and prophecy, prayer in chapter 11. The point of being quiet is in respect to teaching and administering of the Word. READ THE TEXT!

1Co 14:35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
1Co 14:36 Or was it from you that the word of God came?

If she wants to understand scripture and dialog about what is said, it is best to do it at home as she should not be the one to question the ministering of the Word. If anything it should be the husband to ask. It's a matter of headship.

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Again some good stuff and then you blow it. What did Paul say? AS THE LAW SAYS! Also your point of what Paul is writing about is TOTAL speculation. The vast majority of scholars would tell you that. Let the text speak for itself! The reason is headship and order in the church. 1 Cor 11 You make everything in Pauls letter to Corinth only local and not universal truths. You did that in 1 Cor 11 and you do it now DESPITE Paul saying "in the law" and referencing "order".

Re: Women speaking in church
 

Don't you folks knock women preachers...I am Sister Alvear's son and I have a gun...and I have her sense of humor...