Praying People Through
 

So, my new Apostolic Magazine comes in the mail and here is this article on "how to pray people through". An interview with a hot shot praying people through evangelist. He says he has a 95% success rate...how does he know his success rate? Is there someone counting those who get it and those who don't and then do the math for him?

A few interesting quotes;

"People need to relax...they will not get the Holy Ghost while being uptight".

Question: If you pray with someone for a while and they seem to be getting nowhere, what do you do?

Answer: If people seem to struggle, they may not have fully repented, so I make sure they confess their sins and get it all out.

Now my question to you all: Where does it say you have to repent to receive the gift of tongues? And did not Jesus say..."how much more will your heavenly father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask"

How much repenting would one need to do to speak in tongues and get it all out? And is repentance a requisite to receiving the gifts? Are not the gifts given without repentance

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

If his gifts are irrevocable, how can one ever repent enough to merit receiving?

Re: Praying People Through
 

Do you really believe God will give the gift of the Holy Spirit to someone who hasn't turned from their sins (repented)?

Re: Praying People Through
 

(Amazing...)
You seem to be implying that we receive the gifts without repentance.
That is NOT what that verse means.
It means god gives them to us without revoking them.
You might want to study that more closely, maybe with the help of a modern english version, like maybe the NIV or NASB.

29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. (NIV)
29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. (NASB)

Re: Praying People Through
 

We should just look in the bible to find examples of how the early church prayed sinners through to speaking in tongues.

You will find nothing that remotely resembles what we All DO in our altar services in the bible.

Re: Praying People Through
 

Thank you.
And doesnt Acts 2:38 let us know that repentance is what God expects from us before baptism and the Holy Ghost?

Are we going to go running around telling folk now they can get the Holy Ghost without repentance? What bible do people see this stuff in?

Re: Praying People Through
 

You may want to actually read what I wrote before you accuse me of falsely interpreting the bible...here is my final sentence..."
If his gifts are irrevocable, how can one ever repent enough to merit receiving?

Now instead of attacking me, why don't you answer the question?

Re: Praying People Through
 

Thank you. As a matter of fact, the Holy Spirit fell upon them without them actually doing anything

Re: Praying People Through
 

We do know that the Samaritans in Acts 8 didn't receive the Spirit as easily as the Gentiles in Acts 10. Can we assume that they did seek to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Other than laying on of the hands of the apostles there is very much in the Bible to tell us "HOW" believers were prayed through who didn't receive the Spirit immediately upon hearing the word as in Acts 10.

Re: Praying People Through
 

What about all the times the apostles had to lay hands of believers?

Re: Praying People Through
 

CORRECT

IF--IF tongues is the true sign taht a person recieved salavatio it would work just like it did in the early days of the church.

Everyone would be fallen upon by Gods spirit and speak in tongues. no one would be told that they "almost got it". Come back next week and try again.

Pray and fast and repent like crazy....try to become good enough for God to save you.

Yup that's what we OP's tell them.

Re: Praying People Through
 

Anytime they did this, ALL recieved the spirit....nobody got told they almost got it,

Re: Praying People Through
 

Please give me an example of what you are saying. R u saying the Apostles had power to give them the Holy Spirit?

The book of Acts is a 35 year history and in that time, only three examples of people receiving the Holy Spirit as they did at Pentecost are exampled. Peter heard Cornelious speak in the same languages they spoke. They spoke in earthly foreign languages, not blithering babble....

Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues[b] and praising God.

Re: Praying People Through
 

And they didn't have to repent enough to "get it" and the didn't have to "relax" and stop being so "uptight". Is blah blah and la la, the real Holy Spirit?

Re: Praying People Through
 

Calm yourself down a bit. Nobody's attacking you, bro.
You did appear to be incorrectly interpreting the verse. No one accused you of falsely interpreting it. Big difference.

(Your post isn't very clear, in some spots, in case you had't noticed. Better clarity helps prevent people from misunderstand what you're trying to say. )

I did go back and see what you said, and so I also modified my post a bit.
And yes I did see that last sentence. But what got my attention also was this part:

"How much repenting would one need to do to speak in tongues and get it all out? And is repentance a requisite to receiving the gifts?"

... which, as I said, seems to question whether repentence is requred on the part of the person receiving the gifts. I'll ask you then. Why wouldnt it be?

Another thing that's not clear, feel free to clear this part up... are you referrintg to the gift of the Holy Ghost, or the gift of tongues? (It's not clear if you consider them to be two different things. )

Re: Praying People Through
 

Where do you get the notion they didn't receive it as easily as Acts 10?

Acts 8
17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

And how did they place their hands on them? It never says they put their hands on their foreheads and shook em until they spoke in tongues and prayed them through.

Re: Praying People Through
 

Well, IMO (which is another debate entirely) there isn't but one gift. The gift of tongues according to I Cor 12. What the Apostles received in Acts 2 was the ability to communicate in another language to those who were standing by so they could hear the marvelous works of God in their native tongue. We simply do not have any other examples of a separate work.

I believe in receiving the Holy Spirit, but not as typical modern Pentecostalism proposes. The Holy Spirit is given to those who ask. If any man thirsts, let him drink...freely. Jesus is free.

I believe in turning from sin towards Christ, but one simply cannot make the case that God is a respecter of persons and one need labor for a gift. A gift is a gift. It's what he does for us, independent of who we are.

Re: Praying People Through
 

Please show us how you conclude that in the Acts 10, and Acts 19 when they spoke in tongues, they were speaking earthly languages.

So your point is what exactly?
...That the tongues that people speak in when they receive the Holy Ghost in Pentecostal churches today is not the "real Holy Spirit"?

Re: Praying People Through
 

Not all; that would be wrong to stereotype and label all experiences as false. We know we have the Holy Spirit in us by the fruit which is produced. Love, Joy, Peace...etc.

How many people do you know that claim to receive the Holy Spirit actually have their lives transformed and produce this fruit? Some do, but many don't.

BTW, I will answer your other question in a minute. 24 is more interesting...lol

Re: Praying People Through
 

You're right... it is another debate for another time.

Secondly, tongues in the New Testament is not limited to the Acts 2 example you used... that is, being:

"the ability to communicate in another language to those who were standing by so they could hear the marvelous works of God in their native tongue."

When you take a good look at what Paul says in 1 Cor 14 you'll see that.

But if you dont mind me asking... do you/have you ever received the gift of the Holy Ghost speaking with tongues? (I'm just trying to see what your personal perspective is regarding this issue.)

Re: Praying People Through
 

God would not give His power for service,to one who is not in a condition to receive it.
If person has not repented and placed faith in Christ,then such a person is not a candidate to receive The Baptism of The Holy Ghost.
They aren't getting the Holy Ghost in brothels and Honky Tonks are they ?
The verse that says the gifts are without repentance, can mean that God is not sorry about gifting believers.

Re: Praying People Through
 

From reading the book of Acts.

Why didn't they receive the Spirit when they heard and believed the gospel like the Gentiles did? Why did they have to send for Peter and John?

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus

Who says? you?

Re: Praying People Through
 

There is a gift of tongues,where one gives messages in tongues in a congregational setting,and the tongues that accompany receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost,are a physical sign that a individual has just became Holy Ghost baptized.
Tongues one uses in private devotion,are a prayer language that uses for intercession and for personal edification in The Lord.

Re: Praying People Through
 

and what scripture reference can you give us that says that Br hutchinson

Re: Praying People Through
 

The Gift Of The Holy Ghost is a gift of grace,and it is received by faith.
Gifts are not merited,because if a gift is earned it is a not gift.
Ok who wants to book me for a teaching seminar ?

Re: Praying People Through
 

Fruit takes time to produce. There was no question in Simon's mind that the Samaritans he saw were receiving the Holy Spirit in Acts 8. What did Simon see that provoked him to offer money for it? Did he see "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, temperance, goodness, kindness coming from those who were receiving the Spirit?"

Re: Praying People Through
 

Of course, I speak with tongues. But the gift I received at a pentecostal alter was not the infilling of Christ. I am now in my 40's and spoke in tongues 30 yrs ago. What I received that day was contrary to the nature of Christ. I received a challenging, judgmental, proud spirit. Looking back now, I know Christ did not enter my heart until I acknowledged that what I had did not produce the fruit of Christ.

I speak with tongues everytime I pray. But, I can honestly say that what I have now is the actual infilling of Christ.

Re: Praying People Through
 

In First Cor.12 it says do all speak with tongues of course all don't give messages in tongues in a congreagational setting.1.COR.12,13,14 deals with the proper usage of the gifts.
In Acts two and verse 4 all who were baptized in The Holy Ghost spake with tongues.
In Romans 8 :26 the church or the believer is instructed,to pray with groanings that cannot be uttered for the spirit helpeth our weaknesses.
Now this brief but I could go into more detail.

Re: Praying People Through
 

Well, you answered my question. The problem with modern Pentecostalism is that their is no fruit. People serving God without Jesus. Living for God all their lives and no fruit...and btw, how long does it take to produce? 1 year, 5 years, 20 years?

What Simon saw was a spiritual power and he being a spiritist wanted it too.

Re: Praying People Through
 

StaySharp The Holy Ghost you received at that altar,is what brought you to your understanding today,because the Holy Ghost working in us is a work in progress.

Re: Praying People Through
 

Paul specifically asks the question...do all speak with tongues? he wouldn't of asked that if everyone did. It's a specific gift for a specific purpose. (IMO)

Re: Praying People Through
 

I've seen all the detail, from folks a lot smarter than me in fact.

BUT it all comes down to assumptions. Not a proper way to arrive at a sound biblical doctrine.

Yes I speak in tongues. but i do not accept in any fassion that speaking in tongues has a thing to do with whether a person is saved or not.

Re: Praying People Through
 

Fruit has to be cultivated we should speak in tongues and manifest the fruit of the Spirit as we grow in our walk with The Lord we should do both.

Re: Praying People Through
 

No, I would sincerely disagree. Their isn't two spirits. They don't act or behave duplicitous. I recognized my disconnect when I studied Christ and sought to follow him and him alone. Not a church, organization or creed. When I began to follow Christ, then my spirit understood my needs.

BTW, I was raised in the church any my father pastored all my life. I never left the church.

Re: Praying People Through
 

I can agree with you there Scott. Although i would put importance on fruits for 98 % of it

Re: Praying People Through
 

Amen to that. I believe in the Holy Spirit, but if you live your life without Christ, you don't have the Holy Spirit. You have a cheap imitation.

The Holy Spirit does not manipulate, intimidate, lie, kill, deceive, back stab and tail bear. Most of what you see in a lot of Pentecostalism does just this. Including from the pulpit.

Re: Praying People Through
 

Stay Sharp you know your experience,but the Holy Ghost does lead us into growth,and developement,I received The Holy Ghost several yrs. ago but the Holy Ghost I received then is what has led into a better understanding of things biblical,I see some things differently than I used to and it was through the instruction of The Holy Ghost that I see some things differently.

Re: Praying People Through
 

Of course the Holy Spirit is a teacher, I am not denying that. But one must be willing to follow and be led by Christ, not spiritism. We walk by faith, not sight.

Re: Praying People Through
 

We need everything that the Spirit will produce in our lives,sadly in Pentecost the fruit of The Spirit is not emphasized as much as it needs to be ,but that should not be neglected.

Re: Praying People Through
 

Yes tongues and the gifts are manifestations of The Holy Ghost,instruction of The Holy Ghost is a different work of The Holy Ghost.
One work of The Holy Ghost is for instruction.

Re: Praying People Through
 

Staysharp,

While I do not know your doctrinal/theological foundation it would appear (from the red bolded portion) that you believe "praying someone through" or praying until they "speak in tongues" is simply for them to receive the "gift of tongues." If your supposition was correct then your point would indeed be valid, however, when most oneness Pentecostals speak of praying someone through, we are speaking of receiving the spirit of Christ (Holy Ghost) which one would have to receive BEFORE he/she could be endowed with the gift of tongues or any other gift of the spirit.

In Acts 2:38 the word used for gift is the Greek dōrea which simply means gift as in a present. The Word used in I Corinthians 12 for the gifts such as healing, tongues etc. is charisma which has a markedly different definition. (Strong's defines it as: grace or gifts denoting extraordinary powers, distinguishing certain Christians and enabling them to serve the church of Christ, the reception of which is due to the power of divine grace operating on their souls by the Holy Spirit)

Incidentally, I do not agree with most of the "professional" Holy Ghost "specialists."