Originally Posted by Rhoni (Post 720708)

Yesterday, I had the privilege of attending a baptismal service at a local Charismatic Church where my co-worker was getting baptized. I was curious as to the formula they would use and was pleasantly surprised:

They baptized 62 people and before they were baptized read the candidate's personal commitment to the Lord and then they baptized them using the following formula:

I now baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost by the name and authority of our Lord Jesus Christ. I thought that it was perfect!

The service was personal, and scripturally correct in every way! The following worship/Encounter service was equally as wonderful. I love to see how God is moving across all denominational lines.

Blessings, Rhoni

Originally Posted by D. Wright (Post 720736)

It seems their "formula" is fine. Can't see where anyone would be upset at all.

Originally Posted by D. Wright (Post 720736)

It seems their "formula" is fine. Can't see where anyone would be upset at all.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 720749)

Trinitarians dont see Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is not THE NAME. It will be used by them to promote 3 separate and distinct persons each one being God in his own right. Thats the confusion that will come their way.

Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 720790)

You mean like in scriptures like these where Jesus talks about the Father as somewhat seperate?;

Matthew 10:32 (King James Version)

32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.


John 16:16 (King James Version)

16A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.


John 16:28 (King James Version)

28I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Originally Posted by shawndell (Post 720716)

That is so beautiful and completely innocent and so wonderfuly pure that it makes my heart ache.This is a holy conception.A new developing baby in the womb.Praise God for his leading of innocent souls into his family!!:heart:heart:heart:heart:heart

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 720722)

Im glad for each personal commitment to Christ. Im sure they are not aware of situations with how to baptize. The formula they used is very typical in Trinity Churches. Its exactly the one the Ceylon Pentecostal Mission uses.

It will lead to confusion down the road but everyone has to work out their own salvation.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 720749)

Trinitarians dont see Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is not THE NAME. It will be used by them to promote 3 separate and distinct persons each one being God in his own right. Thats the confusion that will come their way.

Originally Posted by Rhoni (Post 720826)

I think we assume too much. The baptizing them in the authority and name of Jesus Christ may be exactly how they interpret the scriptures to mean...I am not sure why we think we have a monoploy on what is considered "the truth". Corinthians tells us that...we all see through a glass darkly.

It astounds me how that when someone does it exactly right we can say, they did it accidently/innocently, or that they do it but don't understand it.

Amazing.

Rhoni

Originally Posted by Margies3 (Post 720845)

Well said, Rhoni. :thumbsup

Do we think that we have all of the truth? And that they have none of the truth? or do they have some of the truth? or is that only some of the time?

One thing I've never understood - and I know this opens a whole big can of worms - is this: While I believe in baptism in Jesus' name, I always have to wonder why it is that there are people out here who are even more sincerely seeking God and His guidance than many who were raised in the Apostolic church. If baptism in Jesus' name is so important, and if they are so sincere, why would God give the revelation of baptism to only a small group of people instead of to all who sincerely are seeking Him?

Don't get me wrong. I am not changing my baptism. I believe I was baptized the right way. But I don't believe that I am better than someone else who God has not given "the revelation" to. So why would He give it to you and to me, but not to them? And please don't give me that tired old song and dance about how He has tried and they wouldn't listen. I know too many people who, if God showed them, they would do it in a heartbeat.

Originally Posted by Norman (Post 720889)

I don't see a problem with that.

Originally Posted by D. Wright (Post 720736)

It seems their "formula" is fine. Can't see where anyone would be upset at all.

Originally Posted by Theophil (Post 720902)

I now baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost by the name and authority of our Lord Jesus Christ.


The only slight problem I see with it is that NO ONE WAS EVER BAPTIZED LIKE THAT IN THE BIBLE. :smack It is unique, though.

Originally Posted by Theophil (Post 720902)

I now baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost by the name and authority of our Lord Jesus Christ.


The only slight problem I see with it is that NO ONE WAS EVER BAPTIZED LIKE THAT IN THE BIBLE. :smack It is unique, though.

Originally Posted by freeatlast (Post 720908)

You will notice though in each recorded baptism in the bible the wording was different.

Originally Posted by Margies3 (Post 720917)

In every Apostolic church I ever attended, those being baptized were always placed under the water as the minister, "I now baptize you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ." Always The Lord Jesus Christ. Never The name of the Lord Jesus or in the Name of Jesus Christ.

Maybe some of you have seen it done differently, but that's my experience.

But at one point in my life, I searched long and hard to find anywhere in the Scripture where anyone was ever baptized in the full name - the Lord Jesus Christ. It wasn't there.

In Acts 8:16 they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

In Acts 10;48 they were baptized in the name of the Lord.

In Acts 19:5 they're again being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

and finally in Acts 22:16, they were baptized calling upon the name of the Lord.

So again, I am NOT saying that being baptized in Jesus' name is wrong! Far from it! What I am saying is that to use the argument, "The only slight problem I see with it is that NO ONE WAS EVER BAPTIZED LIKE THAT IN THE BIBLE" is that no one was ever baptized in the exact formula that we use in Apostolic churches today either. That's the reason I have a hard time finding fault with a formula like the one used where Rhoni went last Sunday. But that's just me. And I'm not God. (a fact for which I am eternally grateful :thumbsup)

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* (Post 720935)

And our church has always baptized "in the name of Jesus Christ". :)

Originally Posted by freeatlast (Post 720908)

You will notice though in each recorded baptism in the bible the wording was different.

Originally Posted by Margies3 (Post 720917)

In every Apostolic church I ever attended, those being baptized were always placed under the water as the minister, "I now baptize you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ." Always The Lord Jesus Christ. Never The name of the Lord Jesus or in the Name of Jesus Christ.
...

Originally Posted by Margies3 (Post 720973)

Please don't think I am finding fault. But that particular formula is never used exactly like that in the New Testament. Which proves my point. Thanks :hug4

Originally Posted by Margies3 (Post 720917)

In every Apostolic church I ever attended, those being baptized were always placed under the water as the minister, "I now baptize you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ." Always The Lord Jesus Christ. Never The name of the Lord Jesus or in the Name of Jesus Christ.

Maybe some of you have seen it done differently, but that's my experience.

But at one point in my life, I searched long and hard to find anywhere in the Scripture where anyone was ever baptized in the full name - the Lord Jesus Christ. It wasn't there.

In Acts 8:16 they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

In Acts 10;48 they were baptized in the name of the Lord.

In Acts 19:5 they're again being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

and finally in Acts 22:16, they were baptized calling upon the name of the Lord.

So again, I am NOT saying that being baptized in Jesus' name is wrong! Far from it! What I am saying is that to use the argument, "The only slight problem I see with it is that NO ONE WAS EVER BAPTIZED LIKE THAT IN THE BIBLE" is that no one was ever baptized in the exact formula that we use in Apostolic churches today either. That's the reason I have a hard time finding fault with a formula like the one used where Rhoni went last Sunday. But that's just me. And I'm not God. (a fact for which I am eternally grateful :thumbsup)

Originally Posted by Margies3 (Post 720973)

Please don't think I am finding fault. But that particular formula is never used exactly like that in the New Testament. Which proves my point. Thanks :hug4

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 720980)

actually we don't have any actual quote of the words spoken by someone when they baptized.

We have a quote by Peter when he healed someone in Jesus' name in Acts 3:6 where he said, "...in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk"

We have a quote by Paul when he evicted a spirit from someone in Jesus' name in Acts 16:18 when he said, "I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her"

but, we have no such quotation by anyone doing baptism in Jesus' name.

We assume they spoke the name of Jesus in baptizing like they did in healing or exorcisms but we don't have a direct quote.

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 721035)

I have read on one of these forums that a UPC church in NE Ohio had a sign in the room where folks got ready to baptize and to be baptized. The sign instructed the person doing the baptizing to say, "In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

I have not been there and did not see it for myself so I do not know if that is accurate or not. I'm passing it on as "hearsay."

I also was told by a UPC minister from Louisiana many years ago that a large UPC church in a certain city used this as a baptismal forumula, "In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." The minister who told me that was not from that particular city. I don't know if he had ever been there during a baptismal service and personally heard those words spoken. So this is also "hearsay." That pastor later left the UPC.

Originally Posted by Margies3 (Post 720917)

In every Apostolic church I ever attended, those being baptized were always placed under the water as the minister, "I now baptize you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ." Always The Lord Jesus Christ. Never The name of the Lord Jesus or in the Name of Jesus Christ.

Maybe some of you have seen it done differently, but that's my experience.

But at one point in my life, I searched long and hard to find anywhere in the Scripture where anyone was ever baptized in the full name - the Lord Jesus Christ. It wasn't there.

In Acts 8:16 they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

In Acts 10;48 they were baptized in the name of the Lord.

In Acts 19:5 they're again being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

and finally in Acts 22:16, they were baptized calling upon the name of the Lord.

So again, I am NOT saying that being baptized in Jesus' name is wrong! Far from it! What I am saying is that to use the argument, "The only slight problem I see with it is that NO ONE WAS EVER BAPTIZED LIKE THAT IN THE BIBLE" is that no one was ever baptized in the exact formula that we use in Apostolic churches today either. That's the reason I have a hard time finding fault with a formula like the one used where Rhoni went last Sunday. But that's just me. And I'm not God. (a fact for which I am eternally grateful :thumbsup)

Originally Posted by Margies3 (Post 720973)

Please don't think I am finding fault. But that particular formula is never used exactly like that in the New Testament. Which proves my point. Thanks :hug4

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 720980)

actually we don't have any actual quote of the words spoken by someone when they baptized.

We have a quote by Peter when he healed someone in Jesus' name in Acts 3:6 where he said, "...in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk"

We have a quote by Paul when he evicted a spirit from someone in Jesus' name in Acts 16:18 when he said, "I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her"

but, we have no such quotation by anyone doing baptism in Jesus' name.

We assume they spoke the name of Jesus in baptizing like they did in healing or exorcisms but we don't have a direct quote.

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 721035)

I have read on one of these forums that a UPC church in NE Ohio had a sign in the room where folks got ready to baptize and to be baptized. The sign instructed the person doing the baptizing to say, "In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

I have not been there and did not see it for myself so I do not know if that is accurate or not. I'm passing it on as "hearsay."

I also was told by a UPC minister from Louisiana many years ago that a large UPC church in a certain city used this as a baptismal forumula, "In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." The minister who told me that was not from that particular city. I don't know if he had ever been there during a baptismal service and personally heard those words spoken. So this is also "hearsay." That pastor later left the UPC.

Originally Posted by Rhoni (Post 721224)

...
BTW - How was Jesus baptized? He was our example...what words did John the Baptist use? Maybe the wording was omitted for a reason? Just a thought.
...

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 721324)

When Jesus was baptized it was considered being baptized in the name of John because John was the leader of the group. Others who later became disciples of Jesus were baptized in the name of John or under the ministry of John. We do not read that Jesus and those others who were baptized in the name of John or under the authority of John were ever rebaptized after Jesus started gathering disciples.

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* (Post 721331)

That is an interesting point, and one I'd never thought about! Were the disciples and followers of Jesus re-baptized in His name?

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* (Post 721331)

That is an interesting point, and one I'd never thought about! Were the disciples and followers of Jesus re-baptized in His name?

Originally Posted by Rhoni (Post 720708)

I now baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost by the name and authority of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Originally Posted by BadgerBoysMom (Post 721416)

I have asked and asked this question and have yet to find any solid answer. I cannot find it in scripture ANYWHERE. Maybe I am missing it but I don't think so.

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4 (Post 721417)

I can drive BY a store without going IN.

There's a significant difference between "by" and "in".

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 721423)

The way I understand it.
-Quite a few people were baptized by John, or under John's baptism, or in the name of John.
-John was the forerunner, the Elijah, who came to prepare the way of YHWH/Yeshua. He emphasized that he could only baptize in/with water but the One coming after him, the One who was before him, would baptize in/with the Holy Spirit. (John 1:29-34)
-Jesus was baptized by John, or under John's baptism, or in the name of John
-YHWH revealed to John that Yeshua was the coming One, the King, the One who would baptize in/with water, the Lamb of God who would take away the sins of the world.
-Two disciples (Andrew and John, brother of James) were pointed to Jesus and they began to follow Him. (John 1:35-40)
_They brought others to Jesus like Peter (John 40-42)
-Jesus called others to follow Him, like Philip (John 1:43-44)
-Others brought others (John 1:45-51)

The Scriptures do not say whether those who left John to follow Jesus were baptized by Jesus, or under Jesus' ministry, or in the name of Jesus.

We do find that Jesus and/or His disciples did baptize people (John 3:22-36). Actually, it's not known how much of those verses are the words of John the Baptist and how much is commentary by John the Apostle who wrote that Gospel. It seems as though both Jesus and John continued to baptize until John was put in prison. (John 4:1-2)

There are some things we just don't know. Some teach that Jesus rebaptized all who came to Him who were previously baptized by John. Some teach that the 12 Apostles, Mary the mother of Jesus and the rest of the 120 who were in the upper room (Acts 1:15) were not rebaptized by Jesus but were baptized (by whom?) on the Day of Pentecost. I don't think we can say either of those two premises are true.

What do I believe? Well, that doesn't make a whole lot of difference. I personally believe that those who had been baptized by John were not rebaptized when they left John and followed Jesus. Those who had not been disciples of John, and therefore had not been baptized in his name, were baptized when they came to Jesus. This leaves some folks who were pioneers and foundational in the church not actually being baptized by Jesus, under His ministry, or in His name. That horrifies some folks. It doesn't bother me.

Water baptism in the couple of centuries before the birth of Jesus was common among Jews. It was called mikveh. Converts to Judaism self-immersed as part of the conversion process. Jews self-immersed at different times of their life. Some good Jews self-immersed each Friday afternoon in preparation for the sabbath. So, if the disciples of John and Jesus were baptized (or self-immersed) several times it would not surprise me and would fit in with the customs of the time. Therefore, they might have been baptized by John and subsequently baptized by Jesus.

There's just some things we don't know.

Originally Posted by Rhoni (Post 720708)

I now baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost by the name and authority of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Originally Posted by Rhoni (Post 721434)

But...they did go in and were baptized in the name and by authority of Jesus...therein is the point.

Blessings, Rhoni