Apostolic Friends Forum

Apostolic Friends Forum (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)
-   Fellowship Hall (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   Prayer Shawl (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=23630)

warrior 04-06-2009 10:52 AM

Prayer Shawl
 
Praise the Lord,



I am in the process of crocheting a prayer shawl. I am really enjoying it and feeling inspried about what I am doing. It is a labor of love.



There are some churches who have ministries where ladies pray and crochet or knit the prayer shawls to give them to the sick or people who are having particular situations.



What is your experience with prayer shawls and/or would you appreciate one as a gift?

Jack Shephard 04-06-2009 10:55 AM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
My pastor uses one lots of times. His actually came from Israel. He taught on it once. Called a tallit or something.

warrior 04-06-2009 10:57 AM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
What do you think of the prayer shawl being a tool for ministry?

Sister Alvear 04-06-2009 11:00 AM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Wonderful idea...will cause people to ask questions...and receive answers...great opportunity to witness...

edjen01 04-06-2009 11:12 AM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
I think they are a great idea...especially in a very "cold" church.:)

Jack Shephard 04-06-2009 11:15 AM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
I think that if your pastor was born a Jew then sure, but I don't think that we would need to or have to wear one during ministry, however I wouldn't care if my pastor wore one preaching.

Hoovie 04-06-2009 11:20 AM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by warrior (Post 732330)
Praise the Lord,



I am in the process of crocheting a prayer shawl. I am really enjoying it and feeling inspried about what I am doing. It is a labor of love.



There are some churches who have ministries where ladies pray and crochet or knit the prayer shawls to give them to the sick or people who are having particular situations.



What is your experience with prayer shawls and/or would you appreciate one as a gift?

They could be a novelty - perhaps even something more with Jewish symbolism. However, if a male wore one while praying or prophesying I would see it as direct violation of I Cor. 11.

Digging4Truth 04-06-2009 11:27 AM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 732348)
They could be a novelty - perhaps even something more with Jewish symbolism. However, if a male wore one while praying or prophesying I would see it as direct violation of I Cor. 11.

Indeed...

I had decided to refrain from commenting until I read your post... which was largely along the lines that I was thinking.

I feel that sometimes these things nearly become talismans.

Each person is different and I am not accusing anyone of any such thing... but I have observed this in the past.

Trouvere 04-06-2009 12:59 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
I doubt Paul no longer used his prayer shall.lol

Sam 04-06-2009 01:28 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Prayer Shawl and
Bible Manners and Customs

Anyone attending an orthodox synagogue today will see that the men are all wearing prayer shawls. It is a very important part of Jewish life. Learning about this sacred garment will teach many exciting lessons from other Bible stories, even in the New Testament!

The Jewish people say that the Talis (Prayer Shawl) is a religious symbol, a garment, shroud, canopy, cloak which envelops the Jew both physically and spiritually, in prayer and celebration, in joy and sorrow.
It is used at all major Jewish occasions: circumcisions, bar mitsvahs, weddings and burials. It protects the scrolls of the Torah when they are moved.

It inspired the Jewish flag. Three separate people had the same idea. They just unfurled the prayer shawl and added the Shield of David and created the flag of Israel.

The dead are wrapped in it when they are buried.

The wearing of the "tallit" (pronounced tal-eet), also called the "tallis" or "prayer shawl," was commanded by God in Deuteronomy 22 :12 and Num.15:37-40; "Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the Lord."

In biblical times the Jewish men wore the prayer shawl all the time -- not just at prayer. If it should be thought that this practice was obscure and short-lived, it will be enlightening to look at other Scriptures that clearly have a bearing on this subject.

Prayer Closet
TALITH contains two Hebrew words; TAL meaning tent and ITH meaning little. Thus, you have LITTLE TENT. Each man had his own little tent. Six million Jews could not fit into the tent of meeting that was set up in the Old Testament. Therefore, what was given to them was their own private sanctuary where they could meet with God. Each man had one! His Prayer Shawl or Talith. They would pull it up over their head, forming a tent, where they would begin to chant and sing their Hebrew songs, and call upon God. It was intimate, private, and set apart from anyone else -- enabling them to totally focus upon God. This was their prayer closet!

Ruth And Boaz
Jewish weddings are sometimes performed under a prayer shawl held up during the ceremony by four poles called a chupa or huppah. In Mid East culture they cast a garment over one being claimed for marriage. In Numbers 15:38 the word translated border or corner is a Hebrew word which can also be translated wings as it is some seventy-six times in the biblical text. For this reason, the corners of the prayer shawl are often called wings. In Ezekiel 16:8, the Lord speaks to Jerusalem and likewise says, "and I spread my wing over thee, and covered thy nakedness," and in Psalm 91 we are able to "abide under the shadow of the Almighty " and "under His wings."

In Ruth 3:9, She found herself at the feet of Boaz, and as he awakened, he was moved with her vulnerability. Women were not to do things of this nature in those days, but in complete honesty and openness she said to him, spread thy skirt over thine handmaid; for thou art a near kinsman Ruth was saying, Take me under your WING. Cover me, is a term of intimacy. Boaz was an honorable man and did the honorable thing. They were married, and she became his bride. Here she was, a Moabite woman from a foreign country, grafted into the nation of Israel. She had the right to be covered by her Jewish spouse’s Talis. This is a symbolic expression of marriage.

It is interesting to note that a similar custom still prevails at an orthodox Jewish wedding, when the bridegroom covers his bride with his tallit, his prayer shawl, with its tassels at each corner, signifying that he is taking her into his care. The skirt of Boaz would doubtless be edged with the fringe and tassels that indicated his status. This request by Ruth was for his protection and his care as symbolized by his personal fringe - his status symbol.

A Status Symbol
The hem of a Jew's garment was not, as in modern clothes, a simple fold of the cloth, sewn down to prevent the edge from fraying. It was a decorative feature that made a statement about the status and importance of the wearer. The people of other nearby nations also had this custom. In texts found in Mesopotamia, references indicate that the removal of the fringe of a man's garment was the equivalent of removing part of his personality. To cut off the hem of a wife's garment was regarded as divorcing her. Tablets have been found with the impression of a fringe as the mark of the individual, a personal seal or signature.

In New Testament times, ordinary people only wore a tallit on special occasions, if at all. It was the Pharisees who seem to have worn it regularly and, apparently in some cases, often for show. Jesus expresses no disapproval of the custom itself but he does condemn the extra long fringes that they affected to display their piety [Matthew 23:5]. Thus the hem or fringe of a garment indicated the rank or personality of the wearer.

When David spared Saul's life, he took away evidence that he had him in his power: "Then David arose, and cut off the skirt (hem) of Saul's robe privily," 1 Samuel 24:4. Why did David do this, and why did his conscience smite him for having done it? Was there some special significance in what he had done? In fact the act of cutting off the skirt (fringe) of Saul's robe was of very great significance, which Saul was not slow to recognize. When the shouting began next day Saul said: "And now, behold, I know well that thou shalt surely be king, and that the kingdom of Israel shall be established in thine hand" (1 Sam. 24:20). David had robbed Saul of his status symbol, the fringe of his robe that identified him as king. The fringes on the garment were a status symbol.
The Prophet Elijah passed his mantle on to Elisha in II Kings 2. Many believe that this mantle was actually his Talis and was symbolic of the power of prayer that Elijah had saturated that mantle with. This mantle that Elijah left behind as he was taken up by a whirlwind into heaven, was what Elisha struck and parted the waters with. Elijah's mantle was a status symbol.
It will be remembered that Jesus castigated the Pharisees for enlarging their fringes (Matt. 23:5), the inference being that they were thereby trying to magnify their importance. Despite this, he must sometimes have worn one himself as the story of the woman who touched the hem of his garment suggests [Luke 8:43, 44]. What was the significance of the hem of His garment and how did she know touching it would heal her? Other people, too, were healed by touching the borders or tassels of his clothes [Mark 6:56].

The Hem of His Garment
"But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings," Malachi 4:2
One of the best known miracles of healing that Jesus performed was the occasion when a woman who had suffered from a hemorrhage for twelve years came up behind him and touched the hem of his garment, Matthew 9:20 The woman was, in fact, reaching for the tassels on Jesus' prayer shawl. In Hebrew, these tassels, which are attached to the corners of the prayer shawl, are called tzitzit. Why should she stoop to touch the fringe? Why not his arm, or his feet?

As the Atorah was placed over the head, it formed his own tent. WINGS of the garment were formed when the arms were held out. For this reason, the corners of the prayer shawl are often called "wings." During the first century there were several traditions associated with the tzitzit concerning Messiah. One was that these knotted fringes possessed healing powers. Certainly the woman with the issue of blood knew of these traditions, which would explain why she sought to touch the hem (the wings) of Jesus' prayer garment. The same word used in Numbers 15:38 for corner is used in Malachi 4:2 for wings. With this understanding in mind, an ancient Jew under the prayer shawl could be said to be dwelling in the secret place of the Most High and under His wings (Ps. 91:1-4). The lady with the issue knew that if Jesus were the promised Messiah, there would be healing in His wings (fringes). That this was the opinion of many other people is revealed by the crowd who sought his healing powers, "that they might only touch the hem of his garment: and as many as touched were made perfectly whole," Matthew 14:36.

When one realized the significance of this concept to the first-century Hebraic mind, it becomes clear why this woman was instantly healed. She was expressing her faith in Jesus as the Son of Righteousness with healing in His wings and declaring her faith in God's prophetic.

Sister Alvear 04-06-2009 01:36 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
agreed...

*AQuietPlace* 04-06-2009 01:49 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
So WHY then did Paul write that it was a shame for a man to pray with his head covered? This is so confusing to me.

Digging4Truth 04-06-2009 02:02 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* (Post 732431)
So WHY then did Paul write that it was a shame for a man to pray with his head covered? This is so confusing to me.

Indeed... at the wailing wall they don't dare show up for prayer without their head being covered.

That being in stark contradiction to Paul's instruction... who himself... was a Jew.

hadassah 04-06-2009 02:41 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
awesome. Thanks for this info. I had thought that psalm 91 verse about abiding under the shadow of the Almighty, might be connected with the verse Jesus commented when He looked over Jerusalem and cried, If only you would have come unto me and I would have gathered you under my wings like a mother hen does her chicks. The verse" He that dwelleth in the {secret place of the most high} to me speaks of hiding in Christ Jesus. There is a verse in the old testament, I think in Isaih, that says" They shall hide in a man".

Hoovie 04-06-2009 02:44 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* (Post 732431)
So WHY then did Paul write that it was a shame for a man to pray with his head covered? This is so confusing to me.

Perhaps I don't understand the question?

A man prays with his head uncovered. Because he symbolizes his Head - Christ, who is revealed. No doubt, if one is still waiting the Messiah - if he is yet to be revealed - then covering would still be appropriate.

hadassah 04-06-2009 02:48 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
There is a man, Perry Stone , who has a tremendous ministry connecting old testament and new. You can look him up on the internet. I have watched his program for 3 years. Its called Manna-fest. He has an awesome incite into the kinsman redeemer and the marriage vows and how it all connects with Jesus coming back for His bride.

Digging4Truth 04-06-2009 02:50 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 732493)
Perhaps I don't understand the question?

A man prays with his head uncovered. Because he symbolizes his Head - Christ, who is revealed. No doubt, if one is still waiting the Messiah - if he is yet to be revealed - then covering would still be appropriate.

Then those who are apostolics and are fond of these things should really re-think the situation should they not.

Hoovie 04-06-2009 03:28 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth (Post 732494)
Then those who are apostolics and are fond of these things should really re-think the situation should they not.

Well sure - I think so.

It is understandable that many Christians are fascinated with all things Jewish. It should never delve into countering the actual New Testament message - whether in real substance of the cross or it's symbolism.

Digging4Truth 04-06-2009 03:32 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 732507)
Well sure - I think so.

It is understandable that many Christians are fascinated with all things Jewish. It should never delve into countering the actual New Testament message - whether in real substance of the cross or it's symbolism.

I agree completely.

While these things can offer excellent types & shadows of what we possess and great lessons can be gleaned from them there is sometimes an unhealthy fascination and obsession with, as you said, "all things jewish" to the point that this great salvation which these things foreshadowed almost becomes secondary.

*AQuietPlace* 04-06-2009 03:51 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 732489)
Perhaps I don't understand the question?

A man prays with his head uncovered. Because he symbolizes his Head - Christ, who is revealed. No doubt, if one is still waiting the Messiah - if he is yet to be revealed - then covering would still be appropriate.

Men covering their hair during prayer was a Jewish custom, correct? So why did Paul say it was a shame?

You think that after the resurrection of Jesus, that's when it became a shame? But there were many other Jewish customs that continued, right, that Paul didn't think were necessary, but didn't call a shame?

I Cor. 11 just seems to jump out there with no precedent, it just confuses me. I'm sure the people he was writing to understood his point, but I'm still not quite understanding where that passage had other witness in scripture.

Hoovie 04-06-2009 04:05 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* (Post 732523)
Men covering their hair during prayer was a Jewish custom, correct? So why did Paul say it was a shame?

You think that after the resurrection of Jesus, that's when it became a shame? But there were many other Jewish customs that continued, right, that Paul didn't think were necessary, but didn't call a shame?

I Cor. 11 just seems to jump out there with no precedent, it just confuses me. I'm sure the people he was writing to understood his point, but I'm still not quite understanding where that passage had other witness in scripture.

Perhaps not so many Jewish customs continued... Paul had strong words for those who refused to see Messiah revealed.

hadassah 04-06-2009 05:20 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
speaking of Paul. How is it that he became preminant over the other Apostles that actually were chosen by Jesus. They saw Him in the flesh. Walked with Him 3 1/2 years. Saw Him crucified and resurrected. Jesus commisioned them to spread the gospel message. When Matthias was chosen to replace Judas, it was required that he had seen personally, the Messiah. Yet, they seemed to have faded into the background.

Steve Epley 04-06-2009 05:29 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
The answer to the deep question is very simple. The covering in 1Cor.11 was hair and not a manmade veil.:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

firefilled66 04-06-2009 05:30 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
I think it's a great idea!! Coming from a jewish background I can tell you that when you have the tallit up and around you feel a sense of the covering of the Lord. It helps one's focus in prayer. Bless you sister and if you decide you want to sell them let me know. Praise the Lord!!!!

hadassah 04-06-2009 05:46 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Its a little unclear about the covering in the first part of that chapter because it says when a woman prays or prophesies she should cover her head. If that part is also refering to her hair , then what does she do with her hair when she is not praying or prophesying. That is why I began to see that maybe it really was a cloth covering.I was in a manna-fest one year in an apostolic oneness church. While I was praying, I felt the strongest urge to cover my head while praying. We were there for a week of fasting and prayer and there were many preachers from all over the country. I covered my head and when I did my prayer language exploded. Later, I searched everything I could to find out what it meant. I really looked at what 1cor. said and that is when I began to wonder if it really did mean a shawl on my head. I tried again at home and my prayer life was stronger. I asked God to give this to other women if it is really what He wants. I fleeced Him and received a powerful answer. In my home church about a year later, a woman came to prayer wearing a head covering and I could see an aura around her. Her tongues were powerful. She was not a stranger to me, I knew who she was. Unfortunately, we were told not to do this, so we stopped. I tried to continue it at home but finally decided that the leadership was responsible for me and gave it up. My point is, that there really is a sense of deep protection wearing that covering . When I fleeced God I felt a burning fire cover me from head to toe. I knew it pleased Him. Women used to always wear hats to church, I dont know when they stopped.

Digging4Truth 04-06-2009 05:49 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by firefilled66 (Post 732563)
I think it's a great idea!! Coming from a jewish background I can tell you that when you have the tallit up and around you feel a sense of the covering of the Lord. It helps one's focus in prayer. Bless you sister and if you decide you want to sell them let me know. Praise the Lord!!!!

Do you think it is a sense of the covering of the Lord or might it be a warm sense of tradition?

firefilled66 04-06-2009 06:13 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Perhaps it is a bit of both but you know I am sure Jesus wore one as did the apostles when they were praying. So I don't see any harm in it.:heart

Digging4Truth 04-06-2009 06:16 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by firefilled66 (Post 732598)
Perhaps it is a bit of both but you know I am sure Jesus wore one as did the apostles when they were praying. So I don't see any harm in it.:heart

I would imagine that they also offered animal sacrifices at the temple as well.

How do you feel the use of such a covering would relate to what Paul said on the subject.

hadassah 04-06-2009 06:28 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
I dont believe in traditions. I am well able to tell when the anointing of God falls on me and no I was not having a hot flash. I think Martin Luther could well have made some errors in translation about a lot of things. I also do not see the harm of it.

jaxfam6 04-06-2009 06:57 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
if the covering of a woman is her long hair than why is not the uncovered part for man his short hair? If we are going to apply the covering to anything a man puts on his head other than his short hair then we have to do the same for women and we now need a covering on our ladies rather than it just being their long hair.
I see no problem with the prayer shawl. I find it to be a custom and not a law that they wear it. I also believe that we no longer need any of that to get into the presence of God. I do feel however that if a person uses one then that is between them and God. If they feel better in prayer for using it then go for it.

warrior 04-06-2009 07:25 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Please know that I am not saying that anyone should or should not cover their heads. I am not saying that there is any special power in the shawl I create for anyone. It is a means of having prayer for that special person and comfort to them. They can wrap it around them and pray for themselves and also know that someone else has been in prayer of their behalf.

What about the prayer cloths used in the Bible. I think this is the same principle.

Let's not make this into something it is not.

It is ministry tool to minister to someone in prayer. God Bless.

ManOfWord 04-06-2009 08:37 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
I've worn a Tallit for the past 2 Sundays as I have been teaching on Christianity's Jewish roots and the sigificance of he passover in the Easter story. Actually the Easter story IS the story of passover. Passover is the greatest story in the entire Bible.

John the Baptist connectec Jesus to the passover when he called Him the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world! :D

Coffee99 04-06-2009 09:51 PM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by warrior (Post 732330)
Praise the Lord,



I am in the process of crocheting a prayer shawl. I am really enjoying it and feeling inspried about what I am doing. It is a labor of love.



There are some churches who have ministries where ladies pray and crochet or knit the prayer shawls to give them to the sick or people who are having particular situations.



What is your experience with prayer shawls and/or would you appreciate one as a gift?


I know of a church that this is one of the activities for their women. They get together one day a week and have prayer, then crochet or knit shawls. Someone sews a scripture in the finished shawl. Then they take them to hospitals and shut ins, visit with them and give them a shawl for when they are cold or lonely or just need to feel a "hug" of love.

We are getting ready to start this at our church.

Digging4Truth 04-07-2009 06:26 AM

Re: Prayer Shawl
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord (Post 732662)
I've worn a Tallit for the past 2 Sundays as I have been teaching on Christianity's Jewish roots and the sigificance of he passover in the Easter story. Actually the Easter story IS the story of passover. Passover is the greatest story in the entire Bible.

John the Baptist connectec Jesus to the passover when he called Him the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world! :D

Actually the passover story finds it's completion in the story of Christ's death on the cross and the Ishtar story is... well... that is another thread entirely. :)


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:10 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.