Help i am frustrated!
 

Hi, I am new to this forum but pentecostalguy once asked prayer for me on this forum. The prayer was for my parents to allow me to be baptized. I have been going to a UPCI church for 5 years. I was filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of Speaking in tongues 4 years ago. During this entire 5 years I have desired to be baptized but my parents have refused to allow me to be baptized. I have been praying for the past 5 years for them to change their minds about baptism. My parents hate the fact that attend church and I try my best to serve the Lord. My mother was raised in the UPCI but is very much against its teaching and denounces the practice of baptism altogether. I have began to feel discouraged by both my situation with my parents and my church. Many of the members have began to tell me that if I really loved the Lord I would find a away to get baptized no matter what. Some have even began to make feel so unworthy and unwelcome in the church that I have faithfully gone to for so long. I don't know if I should leave this church and go to another Apostolic church because they have really made me feel like God doesn't love me because i have yet to be baptized. I tell them its not by choice but they refuse to try to understand. I am so frustrated with the situation. I have come to doubt the call of God in my life. I don't understand why God would reveal something to me that is not possible right now because of my parents refusal. Any advice would be helpful.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

Teen, can you tell us how old you are?

If the decision is not in your hands then God understands - even when people do not.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

Quite a pickle you're in! :)

You said that you're going against your parent's wishes by even attending church. Why don't you go against their wishes to be baptized?

Just curious as to why you draw the line at baptism! You're already disobeying your parents by even attending the church. Are you afraid of what your parents will do if they find out?

I don't know you, but I will guess that your "feelings" about what other church members are thinking is probably off the mark! :)

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

Well I am 16, let me clarify my parents allow me to go to church. They don't like they I go but they allow me to go. My Mom allows me to go mostly because of the respect she has for my Grandmother. My Grandmother however is very elderly with Alzheimer's so she is now pretty much absent from the situation. I do obey my parents wishes to not allow me to get baptized because I am afraid of the repercussions that I will face if I do get baptized.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

you are caught between being obedient to your parents and doing something you believe you should do. You're 16 years old so I assume that where you live you are not a legal age adult yet. I would suggest that you let your parents know that you are delaying your baptism out of respect to them but when you turn 18 you plan on being baptized. Do you plan on staying in your parents' home after your 18th birthday? Will they allow you to stay there if you get baptized?

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

Well, it's apparent that your mother is a casualty of the church culture. Somewhere in the past she was probably hurt very bad. Your mother probably doesn't want you to be hurt like she was!

It's honorable that you have obeyed your parent's demand that you not be baptized.

God still works miracles, and maybe, just maybe, your parents will have a change of heart if they understand you are sincere in your quest. As parents, we always question the motivation or possible pressure from peers to do certain things! :)

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

Teen,

I myself left home at 16 and was baptized with opposition from my parents. Not saying that you should do the same. Give yourself to prayer in this matter and let God work with all involved. In many states 17 qualifies as an adult.

Something that is often difficult to understand as a teenager is that God can use the element of time to His own purpose. Time can often heal wounds, soften hearts and bring clearer thinking.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

[QUOTE=Mr. Steinway;741579]Well, it's apparent that your mother is a casualty of the church culture. Somewhere in the past she was probably hurt very bad. Your mother probably doesn't want you to be hurt like she was!
QUOTE]

This could be only one side of the story. OH, the stories I could tell from
being raised in an Apostolic Pentecostal home, and being in a Jesus Name
Pentecostal church, all my life. When I was 18 yrs. old, I received the Holy
Ghost. I had been baptized at 14. At 19 yrs. my father started a "mission"
in our city. Although it was hard, Dad working a full time job to provide for
his family of a wife and eleven children, and carrying on a new work for God.

My late father and mother founded the church we, my husband of almost 50
yrs, and I, five of our six children, their spouses and 16 of our 20 grand-children,
still attend.

I will say that the best years of my life have been the ones since my late father
and mother began to build an "ark" to the saving of their own house. I so apprec-
iate the sacrifices they made. Our late father said that whether he was successful
or not, depended on we children. "I've invested everything I have in you children".
HOW I appreciate that today. We have also invested in the work of God they begun
a half century ago, this past November 2008.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=20312

It wasn't easy on them or us, but it was worth the sacrifice, and the
work has been profitable. Every man shall bear his OWN burden.

IF some parents of young children today could look farther down the road that
I have already traveled, and see the "skeletal remains" of those who had gone be-
fore ahead. Many got weary of and on the journey set before them, But IF they
could go back, they would never have strayed from the path that God had set be-
fore them.

Parents are our first leaders (teachers)and if they follow the path of life that
God has set before them, their children should be behind them, trusting in the
God of their fathers. Then when they have their own families they are able to
lead them to God. When they have be come mature enough, they will now know
how to lead their own.

There was a reason Paul said that unless a MAN knew first HOW to take
care of this own house, how could he take care of the house of GOD. There-
in lies a whole lot of the problem. The "children" have been allowed to try to
take care of God's house when they couldn't take care of their own. Paul
said "each in his own order". I believe that could apply to generational birth
order. We were taught to greatly honor our great-grandparents. our grand-
parents, our parents, on and on. The children back then didn't tell their
parents what to do. The parents trained up their children in the way they
SHOULD go. I am older now, and OH how I LOVE, HONOR and APPRECIATE
them for that. I appreciate their GOD as MY GOD today.

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. One generation following the one ahead. Let
one generation "drop" out, and it seems that you lose three generations.

On Israel's Wilderness journeying, there was an order. Moses represented
the Voice of God. God filled his mouth. Aaron, represented the priesthood,
which would be to listen to Moses (God's mouthpiece)and the be the mouth-
piece between Moses and the children of Israel. There were always those
who wanted to turn back to Egypt or go into idoltry/worship the gods of
silver and gold. Those who turned back in th heat of the battle or decided
it wasn't worth the wait, on the Lord, were swallowed up by the earth.

Didn't know I was going to say all this but I would like to encourage those
who feel that it wasn't worth following those godly parents or those who GOD
put in their path, to help them make the journey, to remember those precious
little ones coming behind. Sometimes some of them keep going for awhile but
grow weary and drop out.

Then there are those who are the only ones in their family,. like my late Grandma Lizzie
who had enough of the Word in her,to search out each step, believe, and then obey it.
From that one little barely five foot grandmother, have come forth five, and ready to go
into the sixth generation. The blessings of the Lord which maketh rich, came from the
obedience of that one. It didn't start with me but I still had to do my part to see that
my children received the "Blessing" promised to all the families of the earth, to those who
recognized/realized it, for what it is/was and would receive it by FAITH!! That's how Abra-
ham received it. By FAITH! And that's how any of us will receive anything from GOD!

Just some serious thoughts this Saturday morning.

Falla39

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

WELL teen you have waited 5 years you can probably hold on till you are 18 and then you can make the decision for yourself without parental permission. Secondly I feel sorry for a group of people who would pressure a teen into doing something against their parents 'rules' even if it is baptism. If the church wants to treat you badly because you are following your parents wishes till you can do it without their permission that is their problem. God is not doing you wrong, some people are. You should talk to the pastor about it, explain how you are being made to feel. In the mean time you keep serving God and keep honouring your parents. The Bible tells us that the first commandment with promise is the one about honouring our mother and father.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

Get baptized. Period.

If its what you feel God wants you to do then do it. No offense here to parents but we are not talking about a decision to go to a concert or slumber party or to get a tattoo. You bet, we all wish these answers could be perfect, that is the point behind them. We want something to work out so all can live happily ever after. Well, guess what, dont always work that way. Jesus himself spoke of the fact that his mother and brothers were no longer His family. You are the same, you belong to Jesus Christ if that is who you have chosen to submit to. Yes, honor thy father and mother , but honor them over God ?

Get baptized, explain to your parents the reason you have done so, I believe despite your mothers stance somewhere down deep she will understand. I'm sure any reprecussions you face will not exceed anything Paul experienced.

I dont have a perfect answer either that will make the road your on any smoother. But we were never promised a smooth road, only a reward for our sacrifice and commitment.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

This is a hard one, but I tend to lean Scotty's way. We are to obey our parents, our elders, women obey their husbands, the laws of the land, honor the king, etc., but then there's a scripture that says its better to obey God than man. (Acts 5:29) I know when it comes to my submission to my husband, the line is drawn should he ever ask me to go against God on any matter.

I hesitate to advise anyone to go against their parents. :( But I do recall a few instances in the Bible where children went against their parents for the sake of righteousness.

Even if teen gets baptized in spite of his parents' wishes, he doesn't have to be defiant or disrespectful to his parents regarding the matter. There are times when it is permissible, and even appropriate to disobey your parents. IMO, this is one of them, because salvation is a personal experience between the convert and God, not parent-led redemption.

Would some of you suggest that teen obey his parents if they forbade him to pray? Or if they told him not to speak of God in their home? Or tried to make him throw away his Bible?

I would be interested to know the pastor's opinion. :coffee2

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

Obedience to God trumps obedience to your parents. Baptism is a command of the Lord for all believers. But your attitude toward your parents should be one of respect and not defiance.

If I was in your place, by the grace of God, I would prayerfully tell my parents that I was going to be baptized and why. I would also ask them to be there because it would mean a lot for me to have them there. I would let them know how much I love them but that I love God more.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

:thumbsup

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

If anyone has made you feel this way, I'm sorry. :( Hopefully, you're misinterpreting what they've said, because I doubt if they really believe you are unworthy or unwelcome!!!

However, there is a time when maturity must kick in, and a child's relationship with God becomes autonomous from the parental umbrella. When you become aware of right and wrong, and you understand what God wants from you, in my opinion, it is at that point you are responsible to act upon what you know is right, regardless of who agrees.

A mature Christian is able to differentiate between the commandments of God and the commandments of men, and decide which ones are priority, and which ones aren't. I do not believe that any of the scriptures in the Bible advocate blind obedience, even to parents. For instance, would you obey your parents if they told you to steal something? No, of course not. You would choose to obey God's laws instead--right?

If your parents are in error about something, and instruct you in a way that would cause you to violate God's commandments, you are within your rights to respectfully choose otherwise.

Look at Daniel and the three Hebrew children...did they bow to the king? Does the Bible teach we should honor our authorities? Yes! But because the king was asking them to bow to a false God, they obeyed God instead. However, did they ever show disrespect to the King? Not that I recall. And their obedience to God brought forth a miraculous event!

Getting baptized doesn't mean you are going to become a disobedient or disrespectful child. It means you are going to continue to be respectful and obedient, in all matters, except in matters of your walk with God. There are only two people in that relationship. You and God. Not every child is blessed with parents who can assist them in their walk with God. If you are not, you must continue to love your parents, but prefer God's opinion above theirs on more important issues.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

Can the church be liable in a lawsuit over this? We try not to baptize anyone under 18 without their parents' consent (verbal, at least). I can just see some angry parent trying to sue a church over something like this.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

I thought of that, too, Sherri, but I think the "obey God rather than man" clause applies there, too. I fear I'm sounding overly radical here, but were the apostles afraid of what the government had to say? In regard to evangelism, baptism, etc.?

As I mentioned above, would you say the same if his parents were forbidding him to pray? If they sued the church for brainwashing their child into thinking he needed to talk to an invisible deity?

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

Miss Brattified,

You pointed out something I am curious to know also, concerning the Pastor's opinion.

Teen, have you discussed this with your Pastor, or maybe even your Youth Pastor? If so, what advice have they given you?

You also mentioned you fear repercussions if you disobey your parents. Can you elaborate? Is it worry that they won't let you continue attending church, or is it something more?


Sinatra

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

I think you should talk to the pastor. Do your parents espect the pastor?

My sisters hate our type churches because they were hurt many years ago however they often mention their espect fo pastor so and so...as time passes we learn to seprate hurt and the church...we may have been hurt by someone but usually not everyone in the church...I know there are some pretty sick things where people have been deeply hurt however maybe you or someone that your folks respect can talk to them.

Maybe you could write a letter to her....

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

I agree, Sister Alvear, Teen really should discuss the situation with his/her Pastor, if Teen hasn't already done so. The Pastor probably knows this family(didn't you mention your Grandmother used to attend or does attend), so is possibly the best person to "council or advise".

Sinatra

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

We see Jesus as a babe and then we get a glimpse of him at twelve. After being lost
from his parents, and being found in the temple, he went with Mary and Joseph and submit-
ted to them. He had suggested that he had to be about his Father's business, yet he submit-
ted and went home with them. And he grew in wisdom and in stature.

Now Jesus told his disciples that he did only the things his Father (Spirit) told him to do.
And that he only said the things his Father told him to say.

It is my opinion that his FATHER told him (a twelve yr old boy) to submit to his earthly
parents.

God gave children parents because they needed them. The elder teach the younger.
I believe there is an order in God's creation.

Falla39

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

Interesting point.

I would think not, but in todays world someone might just pull it off.

Yet, can I sue the government school for brainwashing my child about evolution ? We don't have much freedom in the way of education, but they say we do have freedom of religion. Does that freedom extend to those underage ?

The same activist parents today who would sue the church for brainwashing a child under their roof without their consent first would tell you that your child under your roof should be given the freedom without your consent to live a homosexual lifestyle if they wish.

In world where the tide is turning against us, we should make stands every chance we get.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

I would agree.

But my question here would be. If the parents lead the child away from salvation, we know that the parents will give account on that day to come. But will the child be pardoned of sin because he/she chose to submit to their parents ?

What is the age of freedom ? In the bible, Jesus was 12 as you say and submitted to His parents. Mans law says that freedom comes at age 18. The bible says accountance for sin begins when one is of the realization that it is sin. "Those who know wrong and do so anyway". So should the age of realization of whats desired of God and the age of freedom to fulfill such be the same ?

Don't know if we are helping teen here or confusing . :bigbaby

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

I think we would need to know a lot moe of the circumstances...however we can all pray.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

I agree, there may be circumstances involved, that might make it unwise for us to try and advise. You never know what the family situation involves.

Sometimes praying for someone is all you can do.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

If I could also introduce an different aspect of this situation that could be at work here.

This is not an issue of God or baptism or salvation. This is a bad parenting move altogether.

If I get bit by a dog and don't like them, should I not allow my child to have one ?

My mom didn't treat me anything like she treats my children, do I keep them from seeing her ?

My oldest daughter as many of you know was killed in a car wreck, do I keep the younger daughter from driving or riding in a car ?

This is a personal issue. The mother was hurt by a religious belief or church or people. As such she is living her personal problem with that event in her life through her child.

You bet, I watched and questioned every car, seatbelt and road my younger daughter was even close to...... for a while. But we all know the proper answer to that is .... you gotta let it go, you gotta let them go. I can't shadow my daughter because of a past hurt.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

I guess the options are

Get baptized with out your parents knowing.

Wait until you are 18 and can make those decisions for yourself.

As far as the church situation...

Tell the pastor how you feel and that if attitudes do not change you will have to find another church. Don't be pushy or accusative or confrontational, just tell him that you feel members have begun treating you a certain way and it makes it hard to keep attending.

BTW, while waiting I would just continue to trust the Lord in prayer for the situation. Ask Him for direction. Read the word daily

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

Teen, if I were you, I would continue talking to my parents about it. Press the issue. It's very likely that they'll eventually say - "FINE! DO it if you insist!!"

I would try this tact first, before choosing to do it without their permission.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

We should approach this the same way as we would want things played out if our child was getting baptized in an AOG church. If it is the child's decision to make, or if he is no longer under parental control - that changes things.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

You said that you're going against your parent's wishes by even attending church. Why don't you go against their wishes to be baptized?





This above text in bold is what concerns me about suggesting the above person disobey their parents, because we do not know what they mean by repercussions.

Maybe I am reading too much into the above statement, however, I am looking at said statement through my eyes and reasoning.

I was raised in the church because my grandmother cared enough to make sure that I was. However, what few in my life and none in my church knew growing up, was of the physical abuse I suffered at home.

I am not in any way suggesting Teen is abused, I'm simply saying that we should use caution when it comes to advising a child to go against their parents.


Sinatra

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

Actually, I don't think they can. In fact, parents don't have a right to even force their kids to attend church, and if their child wanted to attend a different church and it came up before the court, the parents would most likely lose.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

Hummmm.... Suppose my 9 yr old went to a sitter for a few days, then she comes home a baptized Mormon, Catholic or Baptist... yes indeed I would at least consider a visit to the courts! And if I did I would certainly hope the courts would hear me and consider judgment against the offending persons.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

What exactly would the charge be ?

Again, can I take the school to court because my child comes home a believer in the Big Bang ?

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

I am not an attorney and I am not saying the charges would be criminal - perhaps just civil.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

I believe it is the childs decision to make. The only decision I as a parent can make is how things will be in my home. If my child wants to partake of another religion I dont agree with, I can regulate that in my home and be justified in doing so. But if that child wants to practice that religion outside of the home then ok.

NOTE:Knowing somebody is gonna bring up the obvious idiocies, this of course does not include taking part in any practice that would hurt themselves or others or ... yada yada yada...

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

Totally disagree. The parents are responsible and decide what religion and what God is served until that child is no longer under their roof.


PS For them to "hurt themselves or others" is a lessor crime than to turn away from Christ - though one may argue they are closely related. Whatever authority you think you have in the prior case also applies to the latter.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

I do believe there's a big difference in a 9 yr old and a 16 yr old. I'm betting the outcome of the courts would be quite different in regard to an older child.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

I still think that the child only has a couple of more years till he/she can do as he wants without needing parental consent. The church could open itself to law suits if they do something that a parent does not allow the child to do. If it is something that folks are afraid the child will not be 'saved' I think that can be solved by the teen dunking him/her self under the water in Jesus name for the remission of sins. There does not seem to be any law about it having to be a preacher. So in the tub or at a pool dunk yourself under in the name of Jesus and be done with it. If you want witnesses then have a church friend watch and hear you do it so that no one can say it was not done and all will be well with everyone. The church would not be liable because they did not do it and no one for the parent to get angry with. Also those that are worried about the teens salvation can be put at easy that the name has been applied. Then if you want to make it 'official' once they reach 18 they can. That will take care of it for those that feel a minister has to do it.

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

2 things:

1) I agree with you!!!!:thumbsup









2)CHANGE YOUR FONT!!!!!!!! AAARRRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!! IT HUUUURTS MY EEEEYES!!!!!!!!

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

As far as the church being sued...what is the biblical requirement for someone to be the baptizer? What if a friend in that church, baptized and filled already with the Spirit, baptized him? They do it somewhere where there is a pool or at the ocean...nobody else around? The church is not liable...can they sue some 16 year old kid for baptizing his friend?

And that is assuming the parents find out

Re: Help i am frustrated!
 

IF the church did it, YOU COULD LAY MONEY ON THEM FINDING OUT. That is the sad thing. I would love to know if these parents who don't want their child getting baptized would be as upset if they smoked weed or got drunk or even got a tattoo.
I went to church with a girl who had trouble with her parents. They did not want her getting baptized, though after the pastor talked to them they consented. Yet when they would get mad at her for something they would ground her from going to church. They never grounded her from going to school functions, or other extra curricular activities but always from church functions. Once she left the church and started doing the things they all did, get drunk, sleep around, etc etc she no longer had trouble with them. Makes no sense to me.