Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (John 17:5).

Please explain this passage in Oneness terms.

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

I believe it is speaking in terms of the glory of the work of the cross, since the cross was preplanned, and required this manifestation of God as Son to accomplish that.

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

And His coming kingdom. We agree.:thumbsup

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

Bro. Anglin do you believe in two persons in the Godhead?

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

Absolutely not!

Just thought I would get some research in tonight.

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

Coming Kingdom? He said we're born into it now, and it never can be seen. It is here. Don't get me started.... lol

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

Christ was speaking of his existence prior to the additions and temptations he faced through the incarnation. Therefore possibly making reference to the time that was free from the constraints He willingly took upon Himself as a human.

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

let's not go into that again.

I agree the kingdom is here now. It was among/within the folks a couple of thousand years ago while Jesus was ministering (ref Luke 17:21) and is still here.

I believe Jesus is ruling over a kingdom which is made up of all those who have submitted themselves to Him as sovereign and Lord.

But I also believe in a coming kingdom on earth which will be the fulfillment of many of the Old Testament prophecies.

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

I agree with you Bro Blume. The glory of his resurrection and ascension to the right hand of God should be included as well, imo. :)

Here is a more detailed explanation from Dr Segraves.

http://danielsegraves.blogspot.com/2...-john-175.html

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

Cannot be, since Jesus said the kingdom is something that is not visible. :) Let's believe Jesus!

Anyway, back to the point of this thread. :)

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

Thank you.

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

He did???????????????????????????????

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

I call that Ideal glory

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

also we have to realize that in John's Christology there is not Son with the Father before the incarnation. There is the Logos with the Father

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

Yes!

Luke 17:20 KJV And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Luke 17:20 CEV Some Pharisees asked Jesus when God's kingdom would come. He answered, "God's kingdom isn't something you can see.

Luke 17:20 GNB Some Pharisees asked Jesus when the Kingdom of God would come. His answer was, "The Kingdom of God does not come in such a way as to be seen.

Good point, Praxeas. LOGOS not SON was before the incarnation.

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

Elder Blume while Jesus was saying this they were SEEING the King.:thumbsup
Just a thought along the way. Jesus set up a spiritual kingdom at Pentecost that does NOT do away with the promises of the earthly kingdom promised to Isreal. Each has it's on phase. Neither dissolves the other.

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

Seeing the king is not seeing the kingdom.

The kingdom is not something you can see. When we keep it like that, and add no ifs buts and maybes, it is simple and is not adding to the text. The Kingdom will never be visible.

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

It is my understanding that Jesus was the Word/Memra/Logos/Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament and the Word became flesh or took on the office of Sonship or became the Son at the incarnation.

1 John 5:7 (not in some Bibles) speaks of the triune God being Father, Word, and Holy Ghost.

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

kinda seems like a red flag to me.

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

Jesus had glory with the Father as his visible image before the World was. The Logos was both with God as well as being God.

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

Sounds like two to me?

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

But two what? God is a two part being. One part of him was and always will be omnipresent and invisible. The other part of him is visible and from the beginning.

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

What happened to that body at the incarnation?

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

We have to read between the lines to derive that answer. ;)

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

Simple. It became flesh.

Re: Proof of a Pre-incarnate Son?
 

i am now officially confused, i thought obama had two daughters, lol