7 Pounds and The Sacrifice of Christ
 

Has anyone seen the new movie Seven Pounds? I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen.

***Spoiler**** If you haven't seen the movie, don't read on. For those who will never see it:

It is about a man who kills seven people in a car accident. He then tries to find seven people he can help. He gets to know the people he tries to help to see if they are worthy of his help. He donates part of his liver to one, gives away his house to another. At the end of the movie he commits suicide in order to give a woman he has fallen in love with a much needed heart transplant due to a rare blood type.

What strikes me most about the movie is that he intentionally commits suicide in order to give the woman he loves a much needed heart transplant. Isn't that what Christ did for us? Could Christ have avoided his death by answering the pharisees, pilate and herod differently? Did Christ commit suicide for us? And does that devalue the redeeming quality of his sacrifice? Just some thoughts that the movie provoked in me as I pondered it.

Re: 7 Pounds and The Sacrifice of Christ
 

Jesus knew how it would play out all along right down to his answer to them so yes jesus basically commited suicide for us I don't know about devaluing if anything that just validates how much he loves us......But yea I would say Jesus committed suicide for us...

Re: 7 Pounds and The Sacrifice of Christ
 

Technically, His Father committed murder for us. :heeheehee

Re: 7 Pounds and The Sacrifice of Christ
 

I thought this thread would blow up don't guess so..

Re: 7 Pounds and The Sacrifice of Christ
 

I did see that movie. I enjoyed the message, but I do think that martyrdom and suicide are two different things.

Suicide is maliciously ending your own life--by your own hand. Martyrdom is being put to death by another person or group of people for virtuous reasons.

For instance, I would protect one of my children with my life--but that isn't suicide--that's being killed by another person for a noble cause. Not by my choice, but by theirs.

Is a mother who runs into a burning house to rescue her child, only to lose her own life committing suicide? Of course not. She risks her own life to save her child, but it isn't with the intent to lose her own life, if it's possible to save it.

Christ allowed Himself to be martyred/sacrificed--yes! But did He take His own life? No.

As for the movie--I was disappointed with the ending, even though it was rather moving, because suicide falls outside of what I consider to be moral. I'm sure there are those here who think suicide is a perfectly acceptable way to end one's unhappiness or discomfort, and I find that rather disappointing. Life and death are in God's hands, and it is presumptuous, at the very least, for any human to step into God's place.

Re: 7 Pounds and The Sacrifice of Christ
 

But see Jesus could of changed the outcome if he wanted to it was not someone else that killed him because he could control the outcome.. So technically he did take his own life cause he could of changed the outcome but I am sure glad it happened as it did....

Re: 7 Pounds and The Sacrifice of Christ
 

I see your point. Allowing someone to kill you, without resisting, could be considered suicide, I suppose.

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KWSS, you could say that about lots of things. If a young man signs up for the military, he knows the risks, so if he gets killed, he essentially committed suicide. Or a fireman, going into a burning building knowing the risks--if the building caves in on him, he technically committed suicide.

It was the MAN Christ Jesus who died on the cross--the Spirit didn't die. And the MAN Christ Jesus suffered and was martyred just as any other human in the same circumstances.

God had the power to change the outcome, but then He has the power to prevent any human death, but doesn't. Does that make Him a murderer everytime someone dies?

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No, certainly not. If anyone else did that, it would be murder, but God gets a pass. He stands by and watches lots of atrocities. Has the power to stop them, but doesn't. But that's fine. He's God. (Funny, nobody would let me get away with standing by and watching a toddler get hit by a train and say "That's fine. He's Timmy.")

Oh, this is all explained in the book "The Shack", of course. You see, God can't step in and stop, say, a child molester. That would be wrong. No, the only way He could have stopped something like that is 1) to interfere with the molester's free will (how awful!) or 2) not to have created in the first place. Yep. Those are the only two ways "God" could think of, in the book.

Sigh.

Re: 7 Pounds and The Sacrifice of Christ
 

Timmy will probley reply to this..LOL

Re: 7 Pounds and The Sacrifice of Christ
 

:heeheehee

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But deep down you do have to wonder why god does not stop the child molester or thief,murderer etc..........

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So what's your conclusion, Timmy? That there isn't really a God to step in? Or that there is One, but He's not as good as we are? (At least, those of us with protective instincts)

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Or why He didn't stop my brother from drowning, or heal my father of diabetes or heal my sisters child of his fatal birth defect, or why He allowed a woman in her 40's in our church to die of cancer last year or why He allowed my husband to lose his job or....

We all have reasons to question God. Some choose to have faith in Him in spite of everything and some don't. Simple as that.

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I am an agnostic/deist. Agnostic because I don't know (and I don't believe anyone knows or can know). Deist because if God, the creator, does exist, He is not interfering with His creation. He's letting it proceed on its own, according to the laws of physics etc. that He put into effect.

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I'm trying to understand the difference you are making between martyrdom and suicide. Jesus could have answered the high priest differently and explained the profecies concerning the firstcoming of the messiah instead he provoked him by claiming he was God manifest in the flesh. He provoked him with the truth but he could have explained the prophecies and prevented his death. I see it as suicide, much like I think the movie has a noble and redemptive ending. What I'm trying to say is that I view a noble suicide much differently now that I've seen the movie.

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I wonder where God is and why he doesn't reveal himself like he did in the OT. What is so different from the times we live now to the days of the OT? Then again millions of people receiving the spirit and speaking in tongues is proof enough for me.

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I am sorry but it will take a little more then tongues for me that is something that has been proven can be faked......LOL

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How about the real result of "having the Spirit", as they say? Love. Joy. Peace. Longsuffering. Etc. The problem is, many people display that fruit besides tongue-talking Christians. Even people who don't claim to be Christians! And the really funny thing: some Christians don't have much of that fruit!

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All this talk of fruit makes me want some..... wish I had a big ol peach...

Re: 7 Pounds and The Sacrifice of Christ
 

Maybe I just find it off-putting to call a martyrdom a suicide, noble or otherwise. :D Purely semantics, I'm sure.

In the movie, I would call that a noble suicide, because he orchestrated his own death; it was his own doing. A martyrdom can be willing as well, for equally noble or nobler reasons, but is by another's hand.

If this is the case, as you're stating it, then every apostle that was martyred for the faith really committed suicide, as did every saint following. (who were killed for their faith)

Re: 7 Pounds and The Sacrifice of Christ
 

Timmy is not pulling any punches today...... ;)

I think those are questions we all have or have had. And at some point, you just have to decide to believe or not. You have to have faith or not. Frankly, I can think of a number of reasons not to believe (some of which you mentioned). But I choose to believe (sometimes it is more of a choice than an urging), and, by doing so, I have to assume that there is an explanation somewhere beyond my scope of knowledge. I think the Shack did a pretty good job, but there are certain things you can't just talk around. There's plenty I don't understand...

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You're right, of course, and ultimately faith is a choice. If we could see and understand everything, it wouldn't even be faith.

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Yeah - and I know that is probably a bit obvious, but I heard a preacher say once that faith is an action not a state of mind. I thought that was a great way to view it, but sometimes it can seem like an uphill battle when you start thinking about some of the atrocities in the world.

I personally have been so blessed, that I couldn't imagine believing another way. But when I put myself in other people's shoes, it becomes difficult to understand.

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It seems that Jesus the man, begged his Father to spare Him from what He knew was coming. He (the man) did NOT want to die -especially in the manor that it was going to happen. So no, I would not equate it with "suicide".

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I haven't seen the movie, and won't. I'm not easily offended, as you can read anything on this board, almost nothing shocks me or suprises me.

But the idea that Christ "committed suicide" is ridiculous, blaphemous, and offensive.

Re: 7 Pounds and The Sacrifice of Christ
 

Ummm.... In what movie does this happen? I think you may need to re-read the thread. :lol. As far as I know, Will Smith doesn't play Jesus in this movie.

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Good point. I agree.

The movie in question isn't about Jesus. :)

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Boo Hoo! Christ laid down his life voluntarily. He didn't resist. He didn't leave Jerusalem. He went to Jerusalem voluntarily. That is very close to suicide, the only difference is that it wasn't by his own hand.