Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

It seems that very few people on this forum has anything good to say about those who are in ministry. The majority of the opinion comes across as "who do they think they are," "Their controlling," "Dictators!"

Anyway, my wife received this email from a ministry which I will not post, but I thought it was good:

"I can't tell you how many born-again, Holy Ghost-filled Christians pick their pastor apart on Saturday night and then expect him to pray the prayer of faith for them on Sunday morning! They'll constantly make critical comments about the evangelists and preachers that God has sent to minister to them and then wonder why the rain of the Spirit has all but dried up in their churches.

Most of those folks would never dream of criticizing the ministry of Jesus. Yet, according to the Word of God, that's precisely what they're doing. Your see, Jesus said, 'He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth Me.'

I know ministers fail sometimes. I know they make mistakes. Jesus knew they would too. But, even so, He said, 'If you receive them, you receive Me.'

If you think some preacher's doctrine is wrong, then pray for him. Stop sitting under his ministry if necessary. But the Scripture says, 'Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.' (Rom 14:4 - NIV)

The ministers of the gospel are not your servants, they're God's servants. Whether they're right or whether they're wrong, love them and respect them if for no other reaason than to honor the One who sent them.

Learn to receive the minister of God that Jesus sends to you with the same respect and the same honor that you would give Jesus Himself. You'll open the door for great spiritual power to be released. You'll clear the way for God to meet your needs. The anointing of God will be released through the man of God to you.

Refuse to let criticism hold back the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Then get ready to be blessed because, I guarantee, He won't hold out on you."

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

good post. people sometimes have a way of thinking the beam in their eye is more sanctified then the other guys beam. no beamers in heaven. only by Gods grace will we be beamed up.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

It is right to honor those that are worthy of honor but that does not make them little gods running around...I am from a familiy of ministers...several sons are ministers, my husband is a minister and we are supported by many precious ministers. I honor and respect them HOWEVER it is a great evil and dangerous to worship men...we must have a balanced veiw and understanding of authority...lest we err...

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

and in no way would I ever bash a man of GOD...however I will stand for truth no matter where I end up!

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

You may think it strange my writings on this but I have seen lots of families destroyed over a lifetime by men that are NOT sheppard´s...Souls are precious and we must treat them as such.
There is a right and wrong...I personally am thankful for a good pastor that has been my example since a young child. I have never seen him use pastoral authority for personal gain...I am very blessed...

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

Excellent post! ;)
Yes some pastors have an ego problem, like many other humans, and believe that they ARE "God" for those sheep under his guidance., that is when it becomes problematic, even injurious for impressionable and vulnerable 'lambs', but for the most part the ones I've known are doing well, it can be a most stressful position (at times) I'm sure and it takes a strong man to handle whatever comes his way, but with GOD, all things are possible!
I believe that those TRULY called of GOD will turn out to be great blessings for the world., some that are merely
'appointed' as in 'succession' (which sounds more secular) may have some difficulties in adapting.
Either way, it is NOT "christian" to ever put down the men that are 'trying' their best to serve GOD first., they are
certainly not perfect, although there will always be those whom expect that., and I say 'shame on them'.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

A resounding AMEN to this entire thread.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

..and of course the ONE by YOUR side, whom you also serve, is a gift from GOD to you! ;)

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

I believe for the few that bash preacher's. There are many more that lift them up in prayer daily, and honor them for what they do for the kingdom of God.

And let's also remember to pray for each other also, as there are some that love to sow discord among us.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

:thumbsup

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

heading to church...love you folks...

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

I guess I don't see alot of this. Preachers are men also, to expect them to be perfect isn't fair. However, it should not be unreasonable to expect them to Christians. (i.e. Christ-like)

I believe that the majority of pastors are good people, who love the Lord, and love people. What I am against, and preach against, are those preachers whohave tried to makethemselves somebody. I call them "Celebrity Preachers". Those preachers who won't preach for a church exceprt for a certain amount, that want to ride a lime to camp meeting/conference, who want to stay in a suite, etc. Those ministers who are here to be served, rather than to serve. Yes, I admit, I can't stand that, and I beleive the Word backs me on this point.

Again though, I believe the majority of preachers are not in ministry for the wrong reasons, but because they love people, and want to help their fellow man make it to heaven. And while I am all for examining the doctrine that men teach, I think anyone should choose their words very carefully and respectfully when it comes to discussing any minister on a personal level.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

It is all about perspective and balance.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

I think the two comments here (yours and Sis A's) show the misunderstanding of the Word and the focus on the negative. Both of your comments have nothing to do with the article posted, which is why I titled it as I did.

Everyone always focuses on the exception, which the letter actually addressed...telling to leave if necessary. But I think the part of the letter "who are you to judge another's servant" is really the key.

In fact, I would go to the other side of the equation and say, if you have a holy Pastor you should get connected, stay connected, honor and treat them according to the anointing on their life.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

I believe that you are right on this. It's like America as a whole. All we ever hear from are the nuts (on either side)...I think for the most part that are a multitude of Americans that love country, but they are a silent majority.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

sorry that I misunderstood...old folks are like that! ha...

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

Oh great, another congregation-bashing thread. The majority of the opinion comes across as "who do they think they are," "They always complain," Ingrates!"

What? Is that an unfair generalization? Annoying isn't it? ;)

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

Amen, Sis. Alvear!

P.S. You didn't misunderstand anything!

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

love you folks

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

The nightly news, newspapers, and radio tend to have very few stories of the "good" news.....

While in retail, I rarely remembered all the "good" customers.

But I sure remembered the bad custromers. And remembered the horrible pastors (only a couple but their memories stick with me like a bad potato salad).

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

I totally agree with you, but don't you think it's wrong? We are more negatively focused than we are positively focused.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

It is the way we're wired, part of our survival instinct. I don't believe there is anything wrong with that, although it doesn't always serve us best.

If you touch a hot stove, you remember not to ever do it again! There is no reason for your brain to remember all the thing you touched that didn't hurt -for one thing it is simply not efficient to do so.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

I feel sorry for most pastors because the few bad apples give the rest a bad name.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

Our pastor is a man of God with a real heart for people.
I thank God for him and pray for him.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

I feel sorrier for those that bash them.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

Why?

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

I think advice I received from my Portuguese teacher of long ago about Brazilians serve in many areas of life...she said, " Many Americans make the mistake of sayings ´these Brazilians´ because of some bad deal or something and classify them all together...in time that creates a wall of distrust between them and you...always say if someone does you wrong...so and so did me wrong...don´t group all in the same boat...you will only hurt yourself..."

I have found that true over the years...lots of missionaries use the term these Brazilians...and you can always feel an unseen wall between them and the people...

The same way about pastors...we cannot in any way or form put them all in the same group...there are good and bad Americans, good and bad Brazilians and good and bad pastors...

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

We all need someone we look up to in our life...I look up to my pastor, Rev. Bryan Taylor. He has been my pastor all my life. I have never felt him to be abusive...I have seen him change things he once taught because he grew wiser not liberal as some would say...
As we grow closer to the Lord we sometimes see things different...we see we preached things because of the crowd we run with or peer pressure or because we really thought that...a WISE man changes his mind a fool never does...I have a wise pastor.

I am so blessed! He helped me (us) my sisters and I when we were just kids growing up, took us to school, fed us, prayed for us, took us to youth camps...and when I was a mere child and said God called me to the mission field he wisely worked with me to make sure it was a call and not just some fancy...

Lots of other people that have come to mission fields all over the world and made fools of themselves would have been blessed to have a pastor like I have...I must say again I am richly blessed.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

Oh you anti-generalizers, you're all the same!

:toofunny

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

A couple of things: First off, if you don't want criticized, then stay OUT of leadership. It just comes with the territory. When you're a leader, you have a big bullseye on your back. Deal with it. It's just the life of a leader. Secondly, if you don't want "bashed", whatever that is, then don't do stupid things like teaching WACKY doctrines, engaging in perversion, abusing people with authority etc.

I don't relish in anyone getting "bashed." This is a discussion forum, not a church. When things happen, we discuss them. If I did something stupid, I would expect it to get discussed here.

As a leader, my decisions will be disagreed with. I can't expect everyone to agree with every decision I make. I'm only human and I try to see things God's way, but not everyone else sees them that way. That is what leadership is all about. It is about leading the group, not just those who agree with you! :D

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

Good post, MOW.

I guess I don't see the preacher bashing here that many seem to see. Doctrines may be bashed. Bad decisions may be discussed. But I don't feel an animosity towards preachers on this site.

I guess we all operate from our own paradigm.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

GS,
I can wholeheartedly agree that any time spent in derision, gossip, or any kind of judgemental ridicule, is fully sourced from within what should be a former thing among the saints; carnal mindedness.

I also happen to be one of the folks here who believe that the label "man of God" is a former thing. It no longer has relevance. The role has been superceded because a veil (flesh) has been rent, the middle wall of partition between us being broken down; all have access onto the holy mountain.

So GS, do you teach that it is still appropriate to create differentiation among the saints by using the phrase "man of God"?

I can not. To do so would be to declare that children "of God" are something other than "of God". It would give occassion for incorrect thinking that there is some kind of preeminence among members of the body that God has anointed.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

Excellent post... as always.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

In giving honor to whom honor is due does not make them different than anyone else...we are ONE body...the foot is just as important as the eye...and those little joints that you do not see are SO important...
I do have firsthand knowledge of some that think they are on another level...lol...The greatest is only a servant...go look in the dictionary to see what a servant is...

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

Are bunions important, too? :woot

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

ofcourse they are.
I always presumed (sorry) that their purpose is to help pay for websites that are consumed by the grevances of ex-pentecostals.:smack

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

I am thankful for God called Apostles,Prophets,Teachers,Evangelists and Elders because God calls men into these offices to help establish and nurture the saints into the faith.
Sure there are those who abuse the authority of their callings,but men and women whom God has raised up are a blessing,and most definitely are needed in the body of Christ.
Christ is the head of The church,but God ordained ministry helps equip the saints to fulfill the ministry of the saints.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

:lol Not sure I get it, but :lol anyway! :thumbsup

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

As I read this, I confess, I get fired up. Not because I dislike preachers or Pastors or because I am a "basher".

The part that bothers me is how preachers / pastors , are set up as being something better, smarter, more spiritual or more worthy of honor or respect than everyone else.

The truth is people are flawed. Though we as Christians strive to love God and our neighbor, we often fail. Whether this failure takes the form of a person criticizing the preacher they just heard, or the form of the preacher using his sermon to verbally abuse another. I don't think that God is happy with either.

Re: Let's Bash the Preacher Some More
 

I've been a member of this forum for almost a year and I always find these sorts of threads amusing. It's VERY RARE when I read these threads (and I admit I certainly don't read EVERY thread) that ANY preacher has been bashed. There have been general statements of abuse that have been made. There have been discussions about specific doctrines that are being preached (on a varying scale of wackiness). There have been discussions about standards and leadership in general. But, with the exception of the people associated with the Holy Magic Hair doctrine, I don't know of any pastors/preachers being called out and bashed in the public square.
This statements makes the often incorrect assumption that all ministers are called to their position. Most (I hope) enter the ministry because they have a heart to serve God and the church. But the large minority cannot be overlooked -- those who enter the ministry in order to either (1) make a name for themselves (they seek the pre-eminence), or (2) carry on the "family business."

Quote:

Most of those folks would never dream of criticizing the ministry of Jesus. Yet, according to the Word of God, that's precisely what they're doing. Your see, Jesus said, 'He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth Me.'

Good point. As MOW so eloquently stated, people need to understand that leaders are human also. But... if any man/woman intends to be a leader, it's incumbent upon them to develop some thick skin. It's an incorrect application of the principles of biblical authority to insinuate that leaders are without accountability, except to Jesus. Leaders ARE accountable to the people they lead, and they should be willing to reasonably hear and accept criticism.

Quote:

If you think some preacher's doctrine is wrong, then pray for him. Stop sitting under his ministry if necessary. But the Scripture says, 'Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.' (Rom 14:4 - NIV)

This could not be more false and contrary to sound doctrine and principles of accountability.

First, the ministry is a gift TO THE CHURCH! Even the word, minister, notes a servant. These servants are given to the church, and are accountable to the church.

Second, the notion that we are to obey/honor/respect the ministry even when they are in error is horribly wrong and dangerous. Paul instructed us to not even bid them godspeed.

Quote:

Learn to receive the minister of God that Jesus sends to you with the same respect and the same honor that you would give Jesus Himself. You'll open the door for great spiritual power to be released. You'll clear the way for God to meet your needs. The anointing of God will be released through the man of God to you.

Again, I think the underlying premise of this email your wife received is that the saints (lower class) need to just shut up and take whatever gets thrown at them by the "man of God" (ruling class). And if they don't, they are hindering or quenching the flow of God's anointing.

As has already been noted, the whole "man of God" notion has been put away by the cross of Jesus. The veil was torn, and there is no longer a middle man required to enter vicariously for us into the Holy of Holies. The attitude that "we need to hear the man of God bring to us what God has given him for us" is outdated, and needs to be held up to the light of scripture, even when it conflicts with our tradition. I need a pastor who is a true shepherd, lovingly leading. The shepherd doesn't actually feed the sheep, but rather leads the flock to a place where they can FEED THEMSELVES. That's the calling of the pastor, and is intended to compliment the other ministerial gifts/callings that are provided for the perfection of the saints.