Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach,nor to usurp authority over the man,but to be in silence. 1 Timothy 2:11,12
What did Paul mean when he wrote he suffered not a woman to teach what was his motive,and reasoning for this ?

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Well....I tell you why he told them to be silent in church.
When Paul preached, he was preaching that the old men should be crucified.
That really upset all the women in the church because, specially the older ones really loved their old men.
Needless to say they protested loudly, it turned into chaos and that is why Paul told the women to be silent in church and only listen in peace.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Thank you I started this to generate conversation as there are those here with differing views on women and their place in ministry.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

As always people taking scripture and twisting it out of proportion.......It has nothing to do with the women and ministry...LOL If a women wants to preach let her more power to her...

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

I can't wait for this conversation to jump off! This is always an interesting topic of discussion.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach,nor to usurp authority over the man,but to be in silence.

Well, the first statement, that a woman learn in silence... that's probably because ladies always want a good discussion and like to talk... he probably couldn't get a word in edgewise in a ladies Bible study group!! :)

Really, I've heard many different ideas on this... Personally I think of all the little comments I hear around me (mainly from ladies) during a church service, and can understand why he said the first. The second part seems to me to have more to do with the way she teaches than anything. If she usurps authority, or steps out of authority, in order to have her say, then that is wrong. But to take the verse literally, no lady could teach a Sunday School class or a home Bible study or in their homes or even give input on a discussion board if there were any "men"-or males over 13 (or was it 12?)-in the room. I don't think that is what Paul meant at all.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Are you serious?

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Are you serious?

I gave you the reason: they did not wanted their old men to be crucified.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

:nah

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

When a thread is about woman Preachers it is usually very long.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

This seems to be about female teachers.
Joyce Meyers is a prime example why women should not be teaching.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Paul was right,

Women should be quiet in Church, listen to their respective husbands...

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

Reverance her husband...

Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Have plenty ofchildren...

1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Learn in silence...

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.


If we are going to have a free for all, lets just start it out right!

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

hehe this scripture references specifically men who are not "won" or "saved" yet...

Yep, and the husband should love his wife as himself, and he sure 'nough would respect his own opinions and ideas!! :)

Hmmm... doesn't say how many children; that could mean just one or a whole quiver full...

OK!!! :)

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

1 Corinthians 14:34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Paul, when writing to Timothy, also had this commandment to the Corinthians that he had given, and he wrote other things concerning the conduct of women in public worship. Women are not permitted to speak in the public meeting, in the form of instruction or teaching, however, we know they are allowed to pray or prophesy outloud, from 1 Corinthians 11:5, and singing and such things are permitted. I am not a legalist either, in that I don't believe a woman can't whisper something to someone sitting next to her. However, a woman is not permitted from this passage and various other passages, to teach, or to serve in the office of a deacon, elder or bishop.

The tradition of allowing ministers wives to teach, as happens in some UPC churches- especially on Mother's Day, is completely unbiblical, and trangresses the commandment given by Paul.

-Bro. Alex

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Some would argue that if a man tells a woman to teach, she is in obedience by doing as told.

Some would say that in the Corinthian churches women were yelling out questions and disrupting services, and that this is what Paul was talking about.

Others could say we aren't under the law, but under grace.

Others say that 1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law"
means they should totally keep their mouths shut-no singing, no speaking, no teaching, no testifying-keep silence, not a peep.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

The apostolic commandment, and authority to back up the commandment, can not be usurped by some pastor who may tell a woman to teach. Both the pastor and woman teacher are wrong.

This is some fabricated story, which I have never heard of, outside of those who wish to support women teachers. Regardless of what was going on in Corinth, 1 Timothy 2, and the other writings of Paul and Peter forbid women to teach- no Scripture is of any private interpretation, and even without 1 Corinthians 14, there is still sufficient Scripture to forbid the sisters to teach.

I don't know what this phrase was supposed to argue, since Paul penned his letters after Christ had nailed the law and its ordinances to the cross. New commands and ordinances were given by the apostles for us to follow, so we are in the same "thing" or covenant/dispensation as Paul, and his command still stands.

I have never heard someone to say "no singing", not even Steve Winter. They usually say, "Let everything thing that has breath praise the LORD", and this allows for the sisters to sing, but either way, all Christians are urged to encourage themselves and sing songs, and this would be an appropriate vocal utterance of a sister during public worship, since she is not speaking to men, but to GOD, and is singing and not teaching. Also, women can pray and prophesy in the public meeting. I have been in a church of Christ assembly where some women wore veils, though, and they did not speak a word during the service, except to sing with the rest of the congregation, it is not impossible to not make a verbal utterance for an hour or two. Although, again, I do not think this is what Paul is commanding.

-Bro. Alex

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

I'm not sure I could stay absolutely quiet for an hour or two unless my life or someone else's depended on it...

If women can't speak or teach in church, why are almost all Sunday School teachers women?? Sunday school doesn't count? The "boys" in the classes aren't men? Until what age?

I'm being silly. I've heard so many different teachings, even within the same building, that I've just thrown up my hands on the matter. I don't teach, I don't speak out in service, but more because I'm not asked than that I've studied it out. It isn't something I've personally had to worry about.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Yes, children are different than men...

-Bro. Alex

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Saved, just a short question.... What ARE women entitled to do? Either in the Church or anywhere else?

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

They could help out in the kitchens, laundry rooms, etc

Janitorial work, there's all kinds of opportunities.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

I copied this from an earlier thread I had posted and thought it might be
be good to post again.

In the early 1930's, it was two mothers who obeyed God in repenting, being baptized
in Jesus Name, for the remission of their sins, and God filled them with the Holy Ghost,
evidenced by speaking in tongues.
It was not the fathers, but the mothers that said YES to Jesus! Obeying the gospel
that has now been passed on from generation to generation. Five and ready to go
into the sixth.

No, it wasn't the men but the women who answered the call to be a child of GOD!
ONE was my paternal grandmother and the other was my maternal grandmother!
One from each of their families, a man and a woman, who had also received the Holy
Ghost experience, was my late parents.

Our son in law, married to our middle daughter, pastors the church our late father and
mother founded in 1958. His late Great-grandmother, his late grandmother and her sister,
all came out of the Assemblies of God over 60 yrs ago and obeyed this Apostolic truth.
He is the first of his family to have a "man" obey the gospel. It wasn't his grandfather,
but his grandmother, who obeyed and lived an example to this boy and now a full time
preacher (pastor) of the gospel, a husband and dedicated father of four. His eldest son
is a 15 1/2 yr. old, anointed of God, and being called to be faithful also. Another genera-
tion of TRUTH! TRUTH that sets men FREE, who will believe it!!

Teamwork WILL make the DREAM work! BUT IF he won't do his part, SHE WILL, and CAN
DO IT with GOD"S HELP!! It has been proven to be true! Wise women still seek HIM!

The apostle Paul knew that young Timothy had faith in God because he first saw it in
his grandmother Lois and in his mother, Eunice! He believed it to be in young Timothy
too! Paul wasn't nobody's dummy! And neither are we women! In Christ there is
.....! There are many faithful men who have also obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ
since those early beginnings.

Hugs,

Falla39

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Oh huh....!

You know MM that you are at a disadvantage! No matter how many points you throw at us MEN, all we have to do in the end is say...

"It doesn't matter, you're a woman. I don't have to listen to you"!

NANANANANANANA:gotcha


:ursofunny

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Falla

Did your husband give you permission to write this?





LOL

Good to see you!

TJJJ

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

There are many instances of Paul praising women who teach the truth such as Priscilla, see Acts 18:2,18,26; 1 Cor. 16:19; and Romans 16:3; Phoebe, a "diakonon" servant/minister in Romans 16:1, Junia in Romans 16:7, "outstanding among the apostles" Nympha, and "her house church"-- the only leader mentioned by name in Laodicea, Col. 4:15. Also Euodia and Syntyche who "contended at my side in the cause of the gospel" verbally wrestling with unbelievers, Phil. 4:1-3. He hails many other women as co-workers in Christ Jesus. If Paul had issued a blanket edict against all women teaching everywhere Paul would have reprimanded these women instead of praising them!
(Dianne D. McDonnell)


It stands to reason there were many women that preached according to Acts 8...

I just wish we all had the same burden as those early christians...men and women alike died for preaching the gospel...according to the bible and many early history works...

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Many women who labored with Paul in the Gospel and since one can hardly labor in the Gospel without preaching or teaching the Gospel it is understandable that they ministered. Peter on the day of Pentecost let it be known that women were just as imporant as men in the gospel, when he explained the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy that "Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy." A study of the ministry of Biblical prophets shows that prophecy was not limited to telling future events, but also included expounding God's Word and exhorting His people to turn to God and repent. So, for women to prophesy necessarily means that they preach and teach God's Word under His authority.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

A women ministering the gospel can fulfill her duties as wife, mother and a woman...I know...I have just done that all my life...

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Funny, but there is also a grain of truth to it. The "Quiet! You are 'woman'." IS a catch-all clause used by those who believe they (women) have no rights to do anything other then be pregnant and raise their (the mans) kids.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Hello, Bro. J,

No, but if he had been here, he would have approved! We're a team.
Takes teamwork to make the dream work.:heart

Good to hear from you! Pray all is going well!

Sometimes I think, "What if I had been one to keep silent. Just listen to
my husband and never think for myself. Or learn to go to God for myself
and my family. Never seek God for myself. Just be the silent little bashful
girl I once was.
But when you have "Fire" shut up in your bones, you know it has to come out sometimes. I "listened and learned" for many years from my late father (my pastor)and mother. I've passed my "listening and learning on to my children and now their children are listening and learning from their parents (our children). Every man is not equipped to do everything that needs to be done and say everything that needs to be said. My father was equipped from a young age as his mother "fed" him the Word of God and when he was old and mature enough, he fed himself and loved to eat the Word.

He began to feed his eleven children the Word even before some could even
read. It was a nightly thing in our home! Called FAMILY ALTER!! Thank God
for the family Alter. What ever happened to the family alter! The MAN of the
FAMILY led it when we were young.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYVjk...eature=related

My husband did not receive this training as I did. And when he received the Holy Ghost in July of 1958, I had just received it a few weeks before. SO we started out together when we married in July 1959 as man and wife, sitting under my late father as he "FED" us both the WORD of GOD. My husband tells people, "her daddy raised me". He really raised us both, as he and Mom, and Bill and I, all raised our children (my young siblings. and our children up together, as our pastor (Dad) taught us all the Precious Word of God.

Our parents have gone on ahead, out of sight, but we know the WAY and
are following in their footsteps, but SOMEONE must feed these children that
are coming behind. Dad did his part, We have endeavored to do our part.
Our children and their original spouses, and the 20 grands are all in church.
If we all do our part in preparing for the Great Family Reunion, we'll all be
there. The older you get, the more precious family reunions seem to be.

This is long post is not addressed personally to Bro. J, but to anyone that has
as ear to hear.

Blessings,

Falla39

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Sure, you can opt to ignore us if you want to, but it is an awfully lonely world out there without us... and you have a Biblical obligation to support all the children you believe we should have with the sweat of your brow :dance -not sure I'd laugh too hard there!!

:pillowfight

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

If someone that says they are saved was saved under a woman and they do not believe in women then I would venture to say they must have recieved a false Holy Ghost...I read somewhere someone was wanting to re baptize because a woman baptized them..I would suggest a rebaptism at the alter speaking in tongues under a man's ministry...and starting all over in the faith...lol...such foolishness...

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Listed below are all the names of women who preached in a public assembly to men in the New Testament.:thumbsup














































and.....


































































There you have it.:thumbsup

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Elder Epley, how did you come up with such a detailed list?

You must have studied the topic for days on in!!!! :)

I am against the concept of women Pastors-- unbiblical.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

The Great Commission was given to all, and all who are able have an obligation to our Lord to teach and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I don't like to post after Elder Epley however we do disagree on this but I consider him a great man of God...so I am NOT in any way trying to cut his throat or anyone's throat in fact I have to preach later this afternoon and tonight if I feel up to it. I am not real well so I do need added strength from the Lord.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Well I see a distinction between women preachers and women Pastors.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Most of the public Assemblies in the Bible were in homes, under trees, on the river banks...much like the mission field...I read somewhere church buildings came into existance quite a while AFTER the book of ACTS...

However this is a subject that often gets heated and I have a feeling time and eternity will tell what women have meant and mean to the kingdom of God. So I leave it at that...other than commenting now and then but I refuse to get the wrong spirit over this or any other subject.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Paul spoke the word of the Lord aboard a ship at sea (Acts 27:21-25). Philip taught the word to the Ethiopian Eunuch in a chariot (Acts 8:26-29). Christians taught in the general assembly of the saints and in their homes (Acts 20:7, 20). These examples clearly show that the place was never bound by the scriptures, and no one can bind the place without being guilty of putting themselves above the authority of God.
__________________

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

If those first christians were alive today they would feel strange in most churches. 3 songs...a testimony and a dry sermon...lol...

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

Ahh, but three songs sung 28 times each!

And then there is the offering with its promises of blessings......

The list of announcements for upcoming events.

The choir.

A solo song or three.

20 minutes of "I'm almost done now!" followed by continues "Preach it!"'s.

10 more minutes of "I'm a fixin to close here..." -more "preach it!"'s.

15 minutes of ME thinking "will you JUST wrap it up already!" followed by staring daggers into the face of the guy behind me who keeps shouting all of the "preach it!"'s.

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

lol :)

sounds like you have had a plethora of positive church-service experiences!


Actually, what you described kind of reminds me of my Dad's church when I was a kid.

Talk about LONG services!

Re: Paul And Women Teachers.
 

I have years of "positive" experiences. LOL

I hang onto associations far FAR too long.