Originally Posted by Pastor Keith (Post 761237)

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I used this in my Sunday Morning message, it seemed that something I had not previously emphasized really spoke to me about this passage.

What came to me was, if you want to know how it will go for you in the judgment, when we have to give an account, ponder your response and attitude and obedience to the Word in the here and now. What ever your response is now, will determine the outcome then and there.

Yes, God judges the heart and motives, things we cannot see and know, but there is an indication from the words of Jesus how things will turn out then, but how we respond now. Sobering words! Causes me to want to pray a little bit more!

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 761247)

My sins have been judged.
The judgment for my sins has been borne by Christ.
I will never face anything that has been confessed and forgiven.

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith (Post 761249)

Sam,

Of course we are justified by faith, but we will be judged by our works. Faith works by love, those who love much in my mind show tremendous faith!

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 761251)

Yes, I will be judged by my works.
I will give an account of every idle word.
But if I have confessed those idle words, I will never face them.

I believe I will be judged by what "sort" (not size) of works I do.
That anything that is wood, hay, and stubble will be burnt
but that anything that is gold, silver, and precious stones will remain.

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith (Post 761254)

There are a # of judgments to come, 2 stand out.

For salvation, what people do in response to God's offer of salvation. This of course does not apply to believers.

For reward, this is what believers should concern themselves with, how we steward our time, talent, treasure and take of God's belongings (personal holiness) will determine our place in the Kingdom to come.

Originally Posted by LUKE2447 (Post 761258)

So you believe in Eternal Security?

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith (Post 761262)

No, I don't. What would make you ask?

Originally Posted by LUKE2447 (Post 761268)

I didn't think so....



For salvation, what people do in response to God's offer of salvation. This of course does not apply to believers.

For reward, this is what believers should concern themselves with, how we steward our time, talent, treasure and take of God's belongings (personal holiness) will determine our place in the Kingdom to come


In the end we will all be judged unto life or death by our works.... If anything is clear in scripture this is it! Your point above seemed to contradict that judgment would not effect our eternal salvation in which we pass unto his glory or unto damnation.

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith (Post 761282)

Believers don't have to concern themselves with eternal judgment or the judment to damnation, in that as Sam said our sins have been judged in Christ Jesus.

Since that is the clear teaching of scripture then only thing that remains it to be faithful to remain in Christ and bear fruit so that I might be rewarded in the judgment seat of Christ.

Originally Posted by LUKE2447 (Post 761284)

Which goes to my point.... Faithful to remain! Thus a "believer" (quasi term) who is not following after the Spirit cannot be faithful to the WORKS "OF" the Spirit! Thus he is judged and salvation is an issues!

Jesus clearly teaches becareful in this area!

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 761288)

Scary.

Originally Posted by LUKE2447 (Post 761291)

Jesus clearly teaches this in John 15 as we wither and he casts us out!

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 761299)

Exactly. And how about all those poor folks that will say "Lord, Lord, didn't we...." and yet hear those awful words "depart from me"?

BTW, have you voted? Are you sure you're saved?

Originally Posted by LUKE2447 (Post 761303)

Yep, that is why this mentality many people have of grace today is scary. I might disagree with you Timmy on a host of issues and fight tooth and nail for what I believe but I would not judge your eternity ever! My belief system as all of ours do bring a dividing line but I believe we all for the most part do it in love. Not to hurt but to prod each other to keep the focus on him. When it is all said and done it will be for his honor and his glory that true justice will be administered to all properly. In this I pray he is most lenient in everyway that we all share fellowship on the otherside.

Also to answer the question... nobody knows UNTIL he says... Well done, thou good and faithful servant. Sounds like we are talking about the same judgment to me as with the others as he speaks to each of us individually. Some to life and others torment!

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith (Post 761373)

Actually I believe we can live with assurance of salvation, not simply waiting to die to know if we made it....

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith (Post 761237)

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I used this in my Sunday Morning message, it seemed that something I had not previously emphasized really spoke to me about this passage.

What came to me was, if you want to know how it will go for you in the judgment, when we have to give an account, ponder your response and attitude and obedience to the Word in the here and now. What ever your response is now, will determine the outcome then and there.

Yes, God judges the heart and motives, things we cannot see and know, but there is an indication from the words of Jesus how things will turn out then, but how we respond now. Sobering words! Causes me to want to pray a little bit more!

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith (Post 761282)

Believers don't have to concern themselves with eternal judgment or the judment to damnation, in that as Sam said our sins have been judged in Christ Jesus.

Since that is the clear teaching of scripture then only thing that remains it to be faithful to remain in Christ and bear fruit so that I might be rewarded in the judgment seat of Christ.

Originally Posted by LUKE2447 (Post 761303)

Yep, that is why this mentality many people have of grace today is scary. I might disagree with you Timmy on a host of issues and fight tooth and nail for what I believe but I would not judge your eternity ever! My belief system as all of ours do bring a dividing line but I believe we all for the most part do it in love. Not to hurt but to prod each other to keep the focus on him. When it is all said and done it will be for his honor and his glory that true justice will be administered to all properly. In this I pray he is most lenient in everyway that we all share fellowship on the otherside.

Also to answer the question... nobody knows UNTIL he says... Well done, thou good and faithful servant. Sounds like we are talking about the same judgment to me as with the others as he speaks to each of us individually. Some to life and others torment!

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 761408)

I agree. How could they? Sure, a lot of people voted "100% sure" in my poll, but I don't know how they can be so sure. Do they have faith to be healed or heal someone else of sickness, every single time? Probably not. But they somehow know that their faith is good enough to save themselves. Odd, IMO.

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 761406)

Powerful thought.

Here's something I drew from the passage. It's really not all that deep but I'll share.

Jesus said,

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I drew from this passage that those who reject Christ, and his Gospel, will be judged according to his word (the Gospel) in the Judgment.



I would like to mention here that I don't necessarily believe in two judgments. Most believe in a Judgment Seat of Christ (often believed to be after the Rapture) and a White Throne Judgment. However, I believe in only one Judgment of all mankind where all, both the righteous and the sinners, are judged. I take this from Christ's parables. The profitable servants and the unprofitable servants were judged together, the sheep and the goats were judged together, the diligent and the slothful servants were judged together, etc. I believe that when Christ calls "curtains" all men will be brought before his throne. Some for reward... and others for severe punishment. All at a single judgment.

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith (Post 761373)

Actually I believe we can live with assurance of salvation, not simply waiting to die to know if we made it. One of the blessings of receiving the Spirit is proof of our justification and that we have the down payment of the finished work. No need to live in fear or torment, have I made it or not.

Eph. 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[b] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.