Are you deluded?
 

You have certain beliefs. By definition, you think your beliefs are actually true and correct. But you must know of people who you believe (there's that word again!) are deluded. They believe things that are not true. There are likely other people who believe that about you! So there you go. That's the basis of this poll. Are you deluded?

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Hey, you two that voted "No": How about sharing some of the details with us? Are you preterist? 1-step or 3-step or 12-step? Christian or Muslim? Hang the toilet paper over the top or down the back? Some of us aren't sure we're right. Please help! :winkgrin

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Of course, it (almost!) goes without saying that those two would be unanimous on all matters of doctrine. Obviously. :thumbsup

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Hey, "Other"! How about splainin'? ;)

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Timmy, You like polls dont you? LOL

That's ok, its fun.

Any ways, my two cents would be that I don't believe I am deluded but at times I find myself very confused and frustrated. Not just about salvation or things like that but about a lot of things. Like when I think my son is doing one thing only to find out he is doing just the opposite. Or when I think I understand my teenage dtr only to find out she is a total mystery to me sometimes.

In regards to "salvation" or matters involving eternity it's very much the same thing. I have to ask myself, how can so many people have so many different interpretations or beliefs about the same Bible and supposed those who have the same Holy Ghost? If we are each seeking the same truth or answers, using the same scriptures, praying to THE same God then how in the world can we come up with so many different opinions/understandings. How much of what I believe to be correct is really me and how much of it is really God? Does God even really care about the things we make such a big deal about? The things we allow to divide us so intensely; to the point where anger, name calling, hurtful words, and so forth are at the forefront rather than the love we are supposed to have to one another.

To expound a bit: In the town I live in there are 3 UPC churches. To my knowledge they all belief in the 3-Step plan of salvation, but each has very different opinions in regards to varying degrees of outward standards. It affects us so much that there is ZERO fellowship with one another. If we can't stand to be around each other; who in the world else could? But I digress.

My point is this... I believe I am right in certain things, but I could be wrong. I am open to hear God if I need to ( I think ). LOL

Re: Are you deluded?
 

I was working on it! LOL :foottap Sheez! Patience.

Re: Are you deluded?
 

:D

Thanks for your comments.

Re: Are you deluded?
 

BTW, wasn't expecting any "yes" votes. That would just ... be .... weird! :lol

Re: Are you deluded?
 

I don't believe I'm right in every point of my beliefs. However, I think this can be said of most of us. No one has it all figured out. I believe that the greatest "delusion" is thinking that one is absolutely right about everything that they believe - and that anyone who differs is wrong, not sincere, not a true Christian, etc. That's where the spirit of division dwells.

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Two do! (So far.)

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Yes??? OK, who's the wise guy?

Re: Are you deluded?
 

I gotta make my next poll a public one!

Re: Are you deluded?
 

I added to my post.

Re: Are you deluded?
 

who are they?

Re: Are you deluded?
 

:thumbsup

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Dunno. It's a private poll. But man, if I had voted No, I'd want to share my expertise with the forum!

Re: Are you deluded?
 

careful with that word "public"
Some got it confused with another similar word on another thread

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Yes! I was thinking of that, and I typed very carefully! :toofunny

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Let's see, "how could I possibly know if I'm deluded" is (to me) a logical answer, and a good choice even for those NOT deluded. Yet isn't this choice more or less merely agreeing with a definition of "delusion," and begging the question? Therefore, the choice "Yes, I'm deluded" is also bad even if true, because you're not supposed to recognize your own delusion. If you're not supposed to recognize own delusion, then "No, not deluded" is bad for the same reason, even if someone could be so arrogant about EVERYTHING they believed. So, that leaves "other" by default. But if "other" is the best vote for me, then I'm supposed to EXPLAIN my "other" vote. But I am rather now explaining my "How do I know?" vote, with no chance to explain "other", since it's not my vote.

This is my best attempt at pleasing Timmy, hope he likes it.
Marcbee
:usa

Re: Are you deluded?
 

I was talking to a non-Christian friend of mine and he brought up a very similar point in our discussion. He essentially asked; if Christians (including Apostolics) are filled with the Spirit and reading the same Bible... how do we come to so many different opinions and understandings? I told him that it was because of flesh. He had an answer that deeply troubled me. He said that he believed that our confusion was from God and emailed me this verse...

"Likewise, We also made a covenant with those who call themselves Christians, but they too have neglected much of what they were enjoined. As a result, We stirred among them enmity and hatred, which will last till the Day of Resurrection and soon Allah will inform them all of what they have one. O people of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Now Our Messenger has come to you to reveal much of what you have concealed from the Holy Books and to pass over much which is no longer necessary. There has come to you from Allah a new Light and a clear Book, with which Allah will guide to the ways of peace all those who seek His good pleasure and bring them out of the depth of darkness into the light of His grace and guide them to the Right Way." - Surah 5:14-16, Al-Ma'idah, The Koran

He believes that this enmity and hatred among us is a fulfillment of prophecy found in the Koran and that it will reveal to the entire world that we don't have the truth. He believes that, because of this division, Islam will shine before all of humanity and triumph around the world.

Re: Are you deluded?
 

I been drinking a lot of water, but I don't think I am deluded.......

Re: Are you deluded?
 

My point is that our divisions aren't just in house squabbles... our divisions have implications. What message are we sending a dying world? What message are we sending to those who would advance a cause other than Christ?

I firmly believe that the greatest hindrance to reaching the world with the Gospel isn't sin or a morally debased society... it's the church. Too many of us are deluded into thinking that we have it all exactly right and that how we see things is "truth". We have to come back down to a spiritual reality. We don't all have to agree to exist in the Spirit together with the bonds of love. When we narrow the definition of what it means to be a "Christian" down to the point where even 90% of those who have the Holy Ghost are going to Hell... we've weakened the Gospel's power and strengthened the likes of Islam. We have to get to the point where we are spiritually mature enough to allow every Christian to stand before the Lord on his own, refusing to judge another man's servant. They stand and fall unto Christ alone. They may be in error on some points... but we cannot deny that they are indeed fellow Christians. United we stand... divided we fall. Jesus put it plainly...

Matthew 12:25
And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

If we can't live with our differences, assuming the best, and praying for each others salvation without condemnation, believing better things of one another..... we're done for. I know there are theological divisions among us. But I don't believe that Heaven will only be filled with those who agree with me. I think we need to seriously consider the power of self delusion and how it can twist our minds into believing that we (individuals, our organization, or our denomination) have ultimate truth and that anyone who disagrees is wrong and bound for Hell. We are destroying one another... and handing the world to Islam.

Re: Are you deluded?
 

I voted yes. No doubt all of us (even those who deny it ;) ) are wrong in an area or two even though we are convinced we are not.

Perhaps "deluded" is not the best choice of words for this?

Re: Are you deluded?
 

How would I know if I am deluded now? I admit to having been delusional in the past... I am always ready to be proven wrong, and to prove others wrong, it goes both ways sometimes...

-Bro. Alex

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Bro. Alex,

I think it depends on how we define "deluded". If you admit that you have been mistaken in the past and that you're willing to be proven wrong... you're not delusional. You're being reasonable and rational. However, if you believe that you're absolutely right in all doctrinal matters and that all who don't believe exactly like you are Hell bound... that my friend is being delusional.

I see this poll as counter intuitive. It's the ones who admit that they might deluded or those who state "other" who are most likely not deluded. In fact, it's most probable that it is those who answered that they are not deluded who most likely suffer from the greatest delusion.

I'm going to go find a mountain where I can sit and be alone. Should you need to seek more wisdom... drop me an email. :lol

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Islam has divisions among them who curse and kill one another just like we Christians do.

Re: Are you deluded?
 

I'm sure I am deluded about many things. But I'm not deluded enough to think I'm delusion-proof. ;)

Re: Are you deluded?
 

You're right. However, it is the world's fastest growing religion. My question is, are we living down to their expectations of us and thereby giving them an edge?

Re: Are you deluded?
 

I voted Other. Because sometimes I think I was and other times I don't, think I am deluded, I mean. Confused yet?

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Yes, I am deluded. I know this to be a fact because I so frequently have to change, alter, modify, or discard something I held to be true, when I discovered that I embraced something in error.

It is not having a lack of knowledge or understanding (being in error) that God cannot abide, but one who maintains their ignorance willfully, and/or continues to act in opposition to what they "know" to be the truth - even if what they "know" is actually in error.

It is not a question of performance, but of the heart.

Re: Are you deluded?
 

This is the best answer. I am going to the mount as well - but I am taking the entire congregation - you know, safety in numbers...

Re: Are you deluded?
 

:thumbsup Um, but... well, you started by explaining why "how could I...." is a good vote (nothing wrong with agreeing with the definition of deluded!), then why "Yes" is also bad. :blink

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Ya know, I wasn't really expecting any Yesses, or maybe just a few wise acres. But there's 4 now! Interesting!

And the ranks of the undeluded has grown to 3. This is backwards! You guys are supposed to know that you know that you know! :lol

Re: Are you deluded?
 

We don't know that we know that we know everything, Timmy. Anyone who thinks they 'know it all' truly is deluded.

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Per common experience, the "lesser evil" (best of 3 of the choices) defaults to being considered "good" in relative sense.

<<nothing wrong with agreeing with the definition of deluded>>

Nothing "wrong with" but the point of poll was presumably to classify ONESELF, and merely agreeing with a pop definition is irrelevant to classifying oneself.

Delusion is something that only a superior knowledge can assert about someone else, not oneself. Is it possible to "believe" what we know is false? No, because inherent in "belief" is the implication that the holder thinks it's true. Timmay, you're just yanking chains in a fun way.
Marcbee
:usa

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Aw man, you're on to me! (But then, isn't everybody? :heeheehee)

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Don't be very disturbed about the Surah Brother. At the time Al'Quran was penned, there was already many bitter against each other sects of Christians. No big deal for a false prophet to take credit for it.

The surah represents an Islamic attempt to use the divisiveness to convert confused Christians to Islam. At least the various Christians aren't driving truckloads of explosives into each other, like the sunnis and the shias.

Using unity as an argument point is kinda futile from the beginning, there are dozens of islamic sects and they generally don't like each other at all. Proving the the "new Light and Clear Book" isn't so enlightened and not so clear.

I wouldn't call all the differences just because of the flesh, we have free will. That doesn't go away when we recieve the Holy Ghost. We still have brains that because of our raising, education and etc still contains philosophies and outlooks towards issues that is going to color how we approach Christianity. Naturally, there will be differences even among people who embrace the same core doctrines. Doesn't make God wrong, or even us deluded, just makes us people.

Re: Are you deluded?
 

Maybe not, considering the hundreds of serious answers you provoke. Of course, underneath you are serious about what you believe (or around here, rather "don't believe.") Was it true in olden days, the court jester had BETTER been pretty good, or else got thrown out on his ear? Maybe that's "ear" not "ears", considering the previous king, as in "BE FUNNY or else."
:king

Marcbee
:usa

Re: Are you deluded?
 

truckloads of explosives?
maybe not literally,
but there is an awful lot of hate, division, gossip, lies, character assassination, organizational sectarianism, etc. among Oneness Apostolic Pentecostals which is just as bad. How many preachers have been butchered by other preachers in our "political games"? How many people have been killed or wounded and left to wander in the wilderness by our church and organizational splits? Some one has said that the church is the only army that buries its wounded.

Re: Are you deluded?
 

What was the answer to the prayer of Jesus, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us"? :hmmm