Apostolic Friends Forum

Apostolic Friends Forum (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)
-   Fellowship Hall (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   What version of the OT did Jesus quote from? (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=24703)

crakjak 06-19-2009 03:44 PM
What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
There actually was three different version of the Greek OT, which did Jesus quote from?

Ron 06-19-2009 03:48 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 762477)
There actually was three different version of the Greek OT, which did Jesus quote from?
The "Right" one!:thumbsup

crakjak 06-19-2009 03:49 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Post 762478)
The "Right" one!:thumbsup
Right, Ron, a very safe answer, is that your final answer? lol:ursofunny

U376977 06-19-2009 03:52 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 762477)
There actually was three different version of the Greek OT, which did Jesus quote from?
My NT class prof. from ORU said he quoted the "targum." It was not a translation of the original. My prof. compared it to the Living Bible, an "interpetation" Bible.
He said that Jesus' OT quotes sounded like they came from the targum rather than from the transalation.

crakjak 06-19-2009 03:59 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Hint: Your most popular English versions of the OT will not match Jesus' words where He quoted from Isaiah. Why?

Ron 06-19-2009 04:00 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 762479)
Right, Ron, a very safe answer, is that your final answer? lol:ursofunny
I should be a politician!:D

crakjak 06-19-2009 04:01 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by U376977 (Post 762481)
My NT class prof. from ORU said he quoted the "targum." It was not a translation of the original. My prof. compared it to the Living Bible, an "interpetation" Bible.
He said that Jesus' OT quotes sounded like they came from the targum rather than from the transalation.
You are on right track, but there is a very good reason why His words in Luke don't match the verses in Isaiah in our most popular versions.

crakjak 06-19-2009 04:02 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Post 762485)
I should be a politician!:D

You must be a student of American politics.:nah:nah

Neubill 06-19-2009 04:07 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 762477)
There actually was three different version of the Greek OT, which did Jesus quote from?
There were three versions of the Septuagint (LXX)?

crakjak 06-19-2009 04:30 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neubill (Post 762489)
There were three versions of the Septuagint (LXX)?

No, but the Septuagint is the right answer, Jesus words in Luke quoted from Isaiah match only the Septuagint.

The Dead Sea Scrolls revealed that there were at least three different versions of the OT in 250 BC:

Different archaeologists use different naming conventions for the various Old Testaments discovered near the Dead Sea.

Archaeologist Frank Moore Cross uses the following convention: Palestinian (the Hebrew texts that match the Samaritan Pentateuch), Babylonian (the Hebrew manuscripts that match the Masoretic text--the text used in modern Old Testaments), and Egyptian (the Hebrew manuscripts that match the Greek Septuagint). Other archaeologists use other naming conventions (such as pre-Samaritan, proto-Masoretic, and proto--Septuagint).

Shalom!!

From Vanderkam, The Meaning of the Dead Sea Scrolls, 142-14. Emphasis added.

Revelationist 06-19-2009 04:40 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
I thought the KJV was the only version.... :)

crakjak 06-19-2009 04:45 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelationist (Post 762502)
I thought the KJV was the only version.... :)
Nope, it is not even the best.:nah

Revelationist 06-19-2009 06:57 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 762504)
Nope, it is not even the best.:nah
Buttttt....... I've always heard it said that if the KJV was good enough for the Apostles, it's good enough for us... hehehe...


BTW... the thread is very educational... or was still I stepped in... :)

Praxeas 06-19-2009 07:07 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Maybe he quoted the hebrew/aramaic and then whoever wrote the gospels used the LXX

crakjak 06-19-2009 08:40 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 762530)
Maybe he quoted the hebrew/aramaic and then whoever wrote the gospels used the LXX
I believe the disconnect can be traced to Jerome and the Latin Vulgate. Why would the translators use the Vulgate in Isaiah and the LXX when Jesus quoted Isaiah in Luke?


Have you studied any of the details of the findings of the Dead Scrolls, I think you might find it very interesting.

Praxeas 06-19-2009 09:16 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 762558)
I believe the disconnect can be traced to Jerome and the Latin Vulgate. Why would the translators use the Vulgate in Isaiah and the LXX when Jesus quoted Isaiah in Luke?


Have you studied any of the details of the findings of the Dead Scrolls, I think you might find it very interesting.
They were reaching a mostly greek speaking, then latin speaking audience. No I have not studied a lot

Hoovie 06-19-2009 09:51 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
I'll take King James for $500 please.

crakjak 06-19-2009 10:19 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 762571)
They were reaching a mostly greek speaking, then latin speaking audience. No I have not studied a lot
That is correct.

The history of Jerome's Latin Vulgate and his insistence on using his own elusive Hebrew manuscript, even against the criticism of the other church fathers is quite amazing. He condemned the LXX as sloppy workmanship so that he could translated to suit himself. The discoveries in cave #4 provides evidence of his intentional deceptions.

I am still digging into this and having a blast, it is so interesting.

crakjak 06-19-2009 10:23 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover (Post 762578)
I'll take King James for $500 please.
I love the King James, but I believe in the wisdom of two or three witnesses.

History adds much to understanding, but we should always seek the witness of the Holy Spirit.

Praxeas 06-19-2009 10:32 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 762599)
That is correct.

The history of Jerome's Latin Vulgate and his insistence on using his own elusive Hebrew manuscript, even against the criticism of the other church fathers is quite amazing. He condemned the LXX has sloppy workmanship so that he could translated to suit himself. The discoveries in cave #4 provides evidence of his intentional deceptions.

I am still digging into this and having a blast, it is so interesting.
Really? How do you get internet in that cave? :ursofunny

crakjak 06-19-2009 10:36 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 762604)
Really? How do you get internet in that cave? :ursofunny
You know wireless is everywhere now. The Arabs are always trying to disrupt reception, so it is tedious.

Shawn 06-19-2009 10:49 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Our Pastor told us back in the day told us the KJV holds up fine to the originals.


I suppose that's what you say when you beliefs hinge of a specific translation.

Scott Hutchinson 06-20-2009 12:38 AM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Surely Jesus would have quoted from Hebrew and not Greek ?
Maybe I'm wrong but would not he have quoted from Hebraic scriptures ?

Scott Hutchinson 06-20-2009 12:53 AM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Proto-Masoretic Text perhaps ?

crakjak 06-20-2009 10:33 AM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 762614)
Surely Jesus would have quoted from Hebrew and not Greek ?
Maybe I'm wrong but would not he have quoted from Hebraic scriptures ?
His words match the Septuagint, no matter if he spoke Hebrew or Aramaic.

crakjak 06-21-2009 09:56 PM
Re: What version of the OT did Jesus quote from?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 762616)
Proto-Masoretic Text perhaps ?
NOPE!


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:13 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.