How concerned are we about this scripture?
 

(I Cor. 14:23) If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

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A lot that goes on in traditional Pentecostal services looks CRAZY. I recently stood in the doorway at a conference that was held in a hotel ballroom. As I looked in, there were people whirling in circles, flopping on the floor, shaking people around, running around and around chairs, etc. I thought then that if a hotel guest walked by and looked in, they would think the people were absolutely mad.

Should this concern us? Does it not matter? Is it a move of God that should not embarrass us? (I'll confess, I felt embarrassed. :blush)

How much should we worry about what people think?

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I think people ought to study the order Paul gave us in his writings...

Re: How concerned are we about this scripture?
 

What do you mean?

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There is a time for all things...Paul wrote about people talking in tongues...the sinner understands nothing unless someone has the gift to tell them what is being said...gifts must work together.
I have heard people say they could not control the Holy Ghost it was so strong...I often say if you have no self control you are like a car without brakes...pretty dangerous...

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"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. . . . Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If [any thing] be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. . . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order." (1Corinthians 14:26, 29-32, 37-40, KJV)

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This is talking everyone trying to give a message in tongues all at once.
1 Cor.14 is not a prohibition of spiritual gifts,Paul as an Apostle is just teaching the church about the proper usage of spiritual gifts.
The gifts of the spirit will used properly edify the church,when used out of order bring chaos,and cause confusion something God is not the author of.

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:gotcha:foottapI love that analogy Sis. Alvear!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am a firm believer in Spiritual Gifts. But having a Jerhico March every service, is not going to save the lost.

But, of course if there is no preaching. Then we had CHURCH!!!!!!! Nobody got saved, nobody got delivered, nobodys marriage put back together. We rolled, spit, and jumped over pews.

Man we had some church!!!!!!!!

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How concerned are we? Or how concerned SHOULD WE BE? There are really two dynamics here.

How concerned are we? Probably not very concerned. In fact, I've been in MANY MANY MANY services (usually camps and conferences) over the last 25 years where the success meter of the services were based in large part on how crazy things would get. And I'll have to admit that I bought into it for a really long time. It seemed like the crazier the antics of the worshippers (running, jumping, screaming, twirling, rolling, etc.) the more people walked away rejoicing in what a great "move of God" we had.

How concerned should we be? I remember, like the author of this thread, attending a National Youth Convention for ALJC years ago at the Opryland Hotel. We were in one ballroom having our service and across the hall was some professional seminars taking place. The choir was singing a song that went on for (this is NO JOKE) 45 minutes while the place turned into a free-for-all circus. The back doors were propped open for some unknown reason and in the concourse there was a large group of spectators forming. You should have seen the horrified and incredulous looks on the faces of these people. There was no glory being given to God, no edification to the church body, no instruction given to the unbelievers/unlearned. That was a turning point in my life.

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Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And more emen!!!!!!!!

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Here are my thoughts,

The Scriptures describe speaking in tongues. The whirling, flopping, shaking people, etc. are not mentioned in Scriptures. Sometimes one may fall prostrate before the Lord or praise with clapping, cry, and shout while experiencing his glory, but that’s about all that’s described in Scripture. I once watched video where people were making animal noises, one man crowed like a rooster and the preacher actually said, “My friends… that was a wakeup call from God.” I think we need to tread lightly here because in all honesty… there’s little Bible for some of the things we see. I believe Paul would rebuke us and tell us to get the church in order. Someone has to have the guts to say it… I guess I’ll have to. lol

Anyway… the Scripture you point out is very important. Paul is teaching something in context and we rarely examine it closely. Here’s the passage in context…

1 Corinthians 14:20-25 (King James Version)
20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

Paul is telling them to grow up. Yes, God promised to speak to his people through other tongues and stammering lips. And yes, tongues are a big deal to those who don’t believe… but prophesying (anointed messages) serve to edify and build up those who believe. Therefore, if the entire church assembly is raving in tongues, and there come someone who is unlearned or who are unbelievers they are going to think you’re all crazy. But if all prophesy (deliver anointed messages) and there comes in one who believes not, or who is unlearned, he will be convicted and moved because of all that’s said. The secrets of his heart are made manifest and so falling down on his face he will worship God and report that God truly is in that congregation.

Now… we don’t really see this that often today like it was in the first century church. For example, note what Paul writes,

I Corinthians 14:24
24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

In our modern churches we typically let one man deliver the anointed message (we call it a sermon traditionally). However, in Paul’s day church gatherings were informal and were in homes. And in this home meetings everyone would testify and share what God laid upon their heart be it a message, a Scripture, a song, etc. There wasn’t just one man sermonizing. It was more like a roundtable Bible discussion and testimony service with two or three elders serving to keep order. Now… Paul was telling them if a guest comes into their home and all are ranting in tongues that guest will think their crazy. However, if everyone of them testifies and delivers a message from God, this unbeliever will see that God is truly working in their lives as a whole. And as they discuss issues and questions that are hidden deep in that visitor’s heart, their issues and questions will be made manifest and that unbeliever will be convicted to believe.

For example, in a small home church gathering I’ve visited on occasion everyone shares what God has done for them, a message he’s laid on their hearts, a song that moved them that they want to share, etc. You’d be amazed at how many times the very same passage is laid on several people’s hearts that same week. Coincidence? No. Or how all the songs are on the same line of reasoning and it seems like God himself as set the tone for the entire meeting. I sat amazed and how each person seemed directly plugged into God and by the end of the meeting all knew what God was telling the church through the body ministering to one another. It’s not uncommon for a visitor or a new convert to start weeping because the very thing discussed by all addressed a burden they were carrying, a sin they were struggling with, or a question they had about God or God’s Word. This convicted them that God truly was present and speaking to them.

We see this to some extent in a traditional service… but sometimes it’s just a sermon with your typical generalities and sermonizing homiletics. Yep, I used to preach. So I know how to weave the message and use the inflection to appear “anointed”. I also know how to generalize it to a point wherein all might find a little “something” talking to them. However, in the smaller meetings issues, very difficult issues, are often addressed openly and discussed by the group with the Bible in everyone’s lap. When something is said that strikes at the heart of someone there… it’s like lightening and suddenly the damns break and the tears roll… they can’t hide it. They are hungry and finally being fed. They are wounded and finally being anointed with the healing balm of Gilead.

Anyway… to answer your question… YES. We do well to take Paul’s words very seriously and bring ourselves into order. But this isn’t meant to beat up on Pentecost. The Corinthian church had the same issues. But just as they were admonished to pull it together and get into order, if we allow Paul’s words to guide us we can become the grounded and sound body of Christ God is calling us to be.

God bless.

Re: How concerned are we about this scripture?
 

I love when the SPIRIT is moving however some churches I have been in where an almost exact copy of devil worship! (better not to get me started!)

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and what I think may sound like a paradox to some however I DO believe God can move however He wants to however HE said through an inspired writed that all things must be in order...

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Get started, get started! :lol

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New International Version (©1984)
But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.

International Standard Version (©2008)
But everything must be done in a proper and orderly way.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Everything must be done in a proper and orderly way.

King James Bible
Let all things be done decently and in order.

American King James Version
Let all things be done decently and in order.

American Standard Version
But let all things be done decently and in order.

Bible in Basic English
Let all things be done in the right and ordered way.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But let all things be done decently, and according to order.

Darby Bible Translation
But let all things be done comelily and with order.

English Revised Version
But let all things be done decently and in order.

Webster's Bible Translation
Let all things be done decently, and in order.

Weymouth New Testament
only let everything be done in a becoming and orderly manner.

World English Bible
Let all things be done decently and in order.

Young's Literal Translation
let all things be done decently and in order.

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and the floor has been given to the distinguished missionary lady from Brazil.

YOU GO SIS A

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Oh Timmy...ask Paul....:thumbsup

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Thanks for all of the thoughts. Before I go back and read them all more carefully, I wanted to clarify one thing.

I know this verse is specifically talking about tongues, but I was thinking about the phrase 'they'll think you're mad'. Pentecostals do a lot of things that look downright crazy. Should we be concerned about people thinking we're mad?

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This is exactly what I'm talking about. If I hadn't been raised Pentecostal, you wouldn't be able to DRAG me inside one of those type services. I'd be terrified.

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I agree with what you are saying.
I think the preaching/teaching of the Word of God is very important.
If we wind up with just a hallelujah hoedown all the time where is the edification?

There may be times, however, when God is dealing with an individual or several people or when there is a specific need and the whole (planned) service may be changed to minister to the ones in need. The whole service might become a prayer meeting or altar service to meet needs present at the time. That, in my opinion, is more important than following our regular ritual.

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This video is on YouTube and hard telling how many have viewed it.

Does this glorify God?
Is this edifying?
Yeah, the scripture referenced in this thread was about all speaking with tongues but I can see how it could apply to a situation like this also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SgByE0pX1M

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Amen.

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Sam,

Sad to say, but some would say that was a real move of God. Not Judging by any means, but........................

Where is Borat when you need him?

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I couldn't even watch it all, it was so gross to me. I was not raised UPC and had no clue things like that go on there. YUK! A church I used to be a part of was originally a UPC church, but they did not have services like that! Maybe that is why they left the UPC?

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Kenneth Hagen and Kenneth Copeland are definitely NOT UPC.

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Oh, okay. Sorry. :blush You guys will have to pardon my ignorance with all this stuff. For someone that has not grown up with all this stuff, I have a hard time keeping up with some of the conversations on here. LOL

It's good to know that isn't UPC stuff. I lived a pretty sheltered life I am finding out. I am so glad to have found this forum! It is great to be challenged to read the Bible and find out what IT says instead of what men say. :thumbsup

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It is apparent from another active thread that some do not believe Cor. 14 applies to us today.

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1 COR. 14 does indeed apply to the body of Christ today.

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I really do not understand how most of our churches don't see this. It's just as clear as Acts 2:38? The main reason that I've heard from ministers, have never talked to my pastor about it, is that everyone speaking in tongues in the congregation is not a bad thing because it's for their edification, which I agree with, in private. Yet in the congregation it is clear that it SHOULD be for the edification of all. Personally, I just recently have been praying alot about this and try to abide by this in service now, as do a few others. I just hope that more of our church, and all, would get a hold of this.

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Alot of people in Spirit-Filled churches are ignorant,about the proper usage of tongues in a congregational setting,they are so afraid of quenching the spirit,that they actually quench the spirit by the abuse of the gifts.

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Your ref to the "Jericho March" made me laugh!


Christians should be concerned with how what happens in their church is perceived.

It's a delicate situation though. I'd rather be in a church that may be a bit too free and open to the moving of the Holy Ghost versus a church that is a bit too staunch and closed to the moving of the Holy Ghost.

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I agree. We have some excess that we call "worship" that can appear not just crazy but scary to outsiders.

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Why would we ever need someone that makes fun of God's people?

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we don't.


I was so grieved when I saw that. Even my unsaved military buddies with whom I saw this movie thought that the whole movie was a wicked waste of resources that bordered on blasphemy.

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Day of Pentecost was most assuredly pure and they thought those believers were drunk. What was Paul's primary message here? Was he discouraging Pentecost-like experiences? I don't believe that was his intention with the Corinthian church here.

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Our worship to God is not "reasonable" or understandable to the world. Those who aren't in love look at love birds and want to vomit. They don't get the beaming smiles, corny lines and intoxicating glances. To those in love, it's beautiful. It's a fragrance of death to some, and of life to others. There have also been many that wanted to know more about these worshippers. I refuse to cognitize and tone down my worship because we are afraid what hotel guests are going to think. I'm not advocating being "out of control" and circus-like, but spinning, jumping, dancing, shouting and clapping the hands isn't going to die! The Kingdom of God is a party! Come join and leave your dignified senses at the door.

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We shouldn't be unbalanced, having ONLY wild praise, but also times of discipling, teaching, learning, testimony, meditation, etc... But I wouldn't want to be the Judas measuring it all up and mocking another's praise.

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:nahTo all who were offended, I am sorry about the Borat comment. Its just that some of my great friends were part of the wacked out stuff he did at MS. Campmeeting a few years back for his movie.

Once Again I am Sorry

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I am VERY concerned about this verse.

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Many, as well as myself in the PAST, use this passage in Acts 2 to say that crazy acting is alright. But the context literally only allows us to say the people thought they were drunk DUE TO THE TONGUES ALONE. The text does not allow us to think they were acting drunk like jumping and shouting and falling on the floor. I am not saying a person cannot do that when moved on by God, but that is not the issue in Acts 2 when they said they were drunk. It was tongues alone that inspired that drunk reference.

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What scripture do you use to show one has to be "moved on by God" to dance, shout, clap or otherwise praise? On the contrary, I could reference a host of scriptures that concern dancing, clapping, singing, shouting, leaping for joy that are done out of praise alone, and not merrily a response "under the Spirit." (That's not to say we don't have a human response to such a supernatural experience).