Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Piper always has challenging things to say! Your thoughts?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTc_F...layer_embedded

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Great! I have learned a lot from Piper.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Reminds me of this video:

REAL PREACHERS OF GENIUS: Seeker-Sensitive Mega Church Guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb9DF16Fx8k

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

While acknowledging that the "Prosperity Gospel" in many camps has been driven far from what the Bible talks about, I would say that the guy in this Bible is a guy who has never read his Bible

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Read the post: Cost this church 1.2 million..INCREDIBLE!!

That's prosperity!...you can't do things like this without God prospering you.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Sounds like somone with anger issues. Or mad because it is not workin for him! I stopped the video when he said "cr...p" I may use that word in casual conversation, but never from a pulpit, never. I think that the pulpit should be more formal and we should watch every word.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Piper is one of the most humble preachers out there. He has a proven track record with many of his sermons from the last 25 years available free of charge and even allows his books to be downloaded free of charge. He is noted as one of the top 50 preachers on the planet and has influenced thousands if not hundreds of thousands.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

I don't know, he says "........" from the pulpit...

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Let me back up rewind....by your testimony, I am sure he is a wonderful man. I have never heard of him. I just listened for 30 seconds and heard what I called anger, some might say passion. I stopped when he said prosperity gospel was "cr_p." Though I agree with the basic of the statment, I would have said it different. And I am not sure if he does it in the message, but I would also have balanced with how God does IMO prosper.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

My heart goes out for those who have been influenced

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Jeesh guys, toughen up. Paul used terms translated as "dung" and Jesus called men foxes and vipers (very strong terms in Christ's day). Let's put on our big boy britches and hear what a preacher has to say without wimping out on non-stilted vernacular. Maybe it's because I was in the Army. It just doesn't bother me.

And besides, he's right the prosperity gospel is a bunch of cr@p. Not that God doesn't prosper some... but the prosperity Gospel has twisted the principles of blessings and created a money making machine out of it. Most of the worlds most devoted and world changing Christians were very poor and humble people. This world isn't our home... those who store up their treasure down here have received their reward.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

I hear you Brother, I do. I used to say stuff like that from the pulpit, being careful to "stay in the word" and only repeat bible phrases. I even used Ez. one time, the "their issue is like that of donkeys." But I heard am man preach who loved to hear me preach and he said from the pulpit "I don't give a rats A_S if you don't like it! " I vowed to stop saying junk words from the pulpit because it had this bad influence and many people did not like or understand it. I hear "screwed up" a lot from the pulpit, when I was a teenager that meant the "f" word. I have come to think it is bad taste, maybe my pendulum is swinging at the exteme end? I don't know.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

I sit on a stool every Sunday and speak...haven't had a pulpit for years. So when I say "cr-p", I'm safe!!

For me, it's just a word. It's a euphemism, a slang term, and we all use them in some form or another. But I understand where you're coming from.

But I think it's the perfect word to describe anything that has to do with the prosperity doctrine. Well, there's actually a few better ones but I'd REALLY get in trouble here if I used those!

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Blessed are the poor financially for they shall never evangelize the world :ursofunny

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Whatever, dude.

But wait, does the laughing thinggy mean you're being sarcastic? If so, I'm laughing too. If you're serious, then I default back to,

Whatever dude.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

I see where you're coming from. First off, while the term "ass" is in Scripture it's referring to a donkey not anatomy. I think to use it in terms of anatomy is over the top. I also agree with you, the use of the phrase "screwed up" is a bit uncouth. The term "cr@p" is synonymous with "dung" in my opinion so that one doesn't bother me so much if a preacher is driving home a point with force. Maybe he should have just said "dung"... lol... he'd still get his point across and there would be no issue from anyone. lol

I know a preacher who used the terms "f@g" and "f@ggot" from the pulpit. I confronted him after service and told him that while I love and respected him I have a duty to keep my son from using derogatory words used to insult and hurt people. I told him I didn't want to hear it again. Period... and if my son repeated it I'd demand a public apology. hehehe

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Glory... the fastest growing Christian works are found in China and South America where very poor Christians are simply meeting in homes together to share the Gospel without the theatrics of Western church as you and I know it.

The United States has the richest Christian churches in the World... and America is becoming increasingly less Christian every year. If money, talent, and ability were the key ingredients for evangelism you'd think America would be a solidly Christian Nation.

I should mention... many of these house church network pastors from China have started sending ministers to the United States to help the American simple church movement.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

:ursofunny:thumbsup

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

You bring up a good point about our kids, and I admire your courage in confronting this pastor with using the words f@ggot. I used the phrase "lipstick lesbian" and unbeknown to me there was a lesbian there that morning. She never came back. A lot of good I did her :(. I could have said the same thing in a non offensive way. But we learn from our mistakes. And I know a man who used "whore" about 20 times one Sunday morning. He had everyone laughing. Trouble was, there was an older lady who had just come in the church and she had been one in the past. She thought the preacher was talking about her. She left and never came back! Ooouch!.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Blah blah blah....I know where you stand on the house church. Yes you are right. China is one of the fastest growing churches in the world (I'm saying this like Eor the cartoon character), but what you fail to mention is that their movement is primarily funded by the west and even at their rapid growth rate, as a percentage to the overall population it is almost statistically insignificant.

While I realize souls are not insignificant, a soul is a soul is a soul, they are obviously going to have a high growth rate due to the enormity of people in the region.

Historically speaking it is not "house church" or "poverty" that creates a thriving church it is persecution - read the book of Acts, Voice of the Martyrs, and so on.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

I'll help you out....you want to default back to "whatever dude"

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Oh, and just by way of topic "prosperity" which I have had very harsh disagreement with me....

As for our church we haven't been hit by the economy....

Just had a couple start a business that within 30 days is thriving....had a contractor loose his long time position with a larger contracting firm, but is doing better on his own than he was before. Have a guy who works for the State (that would be California) get his salary slashed by several hundred dollars a month, yet it was made up through another avenue either the same day or the next day.

As for the church in general our offerings are up this year as is our giving.

So I hope that the non-prosperity people out there have a lot more faith in their government to take care of them then what they apparent believe in God's prosperity, because it is going to get a lot worse before it even looks like it will get better.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

I pastor a church plant and we opened in March of this year. We've built up to anywhere from 180-240 on Sunday's, of which about 80% didn't attend church 4 months ago. Most of them are turning to Christ for the first time in their lives. We've had no church transfers (and in the U.S., 90% of church growth is from transfers).

And to be honest, I haven't given a thought as to what the offerings are. I get a list each week and most of the time, I don't look at it.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

GS, do you endorse the TBN prosperity teachers?

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

As a whole I don't endorse TBN, but I am not really sure who is on there since I don't watch it.

As a whole the "Prosperity Message" is really a greed message. But then the anti-prosperity people tend to jump in the ditch on the other side when it is clear that God wants us blessed.

Then you have to get down to the purpose of prosperity. While I don't believe that God is against His kids having nice things the purpose of prosperity is to get this gospel spread around the world.

As for the video posted in this thread it is clear that this guy is not only in the anti-prosperity ditch, but he's drowning also.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

actually the only video I checked out on this thread was the one posted by bro. blume:D

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Go back to the original post

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

All this TBN, TBS, TNT, TLC (which I kinda like), TCM, TCT......

I think I'll just stick with FOX.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Amen!

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

You're wrong, biblically, realistically, and historically. Read the story of J. Hudson Taylor who, in 51 years in China, took the church from zero to over 800,000 and modern day millions. He refused to take any missions support from anyone.

And way to go on responding to the home church fellow with the "blah, blah, blah." Very kind.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

The problem I have is not with the biblical prosperity that is promised. The problem I have is with the RADICAL prosperity message that is espoused by some. For those, they preach the message not to make everyone else rich, but so THEY can be rich. They tell folks to sow into THEIR ministry because THEIR ministry is fertile soil. In all my years of pastoring (over 25) my observation is that the only ones who rich from the RADICAL prosperity message is those who preach it!

Don't get me wrong...the Lord has prospered me and my family abundantly. We freely and joyfully give and have given. I have NEVER EVER told someone to give to my minister because it it fertile soil and they will be blessed because of it.

I believe in prosperity. Prosperity comes from working diligently, using wisdom, being honest, liberal in giving, spending less than you make. It is more about Proverbs living than it is plopping some money down Mike Murdoch style and expecting someone running down the street to hand you an envelope full of money! (and I know God can do that) It's just that most of these guys sell their "formula" like the late night get rich quick schemers by using the small minority of those with incredible stories to tell everyone that they can have it too! I was born at night....but it wasn't last night!

I personally know at least one pastor who said that the prosperity gospel is where the money is! I think Piper is right on target in what he is coming against...the RADICAL prosperity preachers.

Like I said, I have given and been blessed because of it. But I don't give to get blessed. I give to be a blessing. If I want to make some money, I may make an investment. I don't give in the kingdom for an investment. I do it because it is the right thing to do. God IS concerned with out motives. :D

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Hmmmm, you give an example of one person and I am biblically, realistically, and historically wrong. That's some argument you've made.

Let me help you again. There are more than one who hasn't taken western money, but as a whole the China church (as well as pretty much any other foreign work) has been developed on western money.


So let's look at your one example. Since you used the general term of "millions" we will credit him with five million. Therefore his affect on China is .3 percent of China. (that's less than 1%)

But hey, I'm biblically, historically, and realistically don't have a clue :ursofunny (that would be a default to dude :tease)

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

GS, your way off base on this (which is usual when you post concerning money). Your sarcasim and mocking are tiring.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

You said "NEVER", and I gave you an example and said you were wrong. You are.......Dude.

This all reminds me of why I left Pentecostalism years ago and the religious culture a few years ago. It's like arguing with a stump. You say something has "never" happened, I give an example of where it HAS happened, and you respond with a percentage that minimizes the work of a man who was instrumental in changing the population of heaven and hell by millions.

So, I'll just move along. You think I'm wrong, and I think you are. I'll just leave it at that.

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

Here is a re-post of the one you are talking about:

"Blah blah blah....I know where you stand on the house church. Yes you are right. China is one of the fastest growing churches in the world (I'm saying this like Eor the cartoon character), but what you fail to mention is that their movement is primarily funded by the west and even at their rapid growth rate, as a percentage to the overall population it is almost statistically insignificant.

While I realize souls are not insignificant, a soul is a soul is a soul, they are obviously going to have a high growth rate due to the enormity of people in the region.

Historically speaking it is not "house church" or "poverty" that creates a thriving church it is persecution - read the book of Acts, Voice of the Martyrs, and so on."

I'm not sure what "never" you are referring to. You may have left Pentecostalism too early just because you misunderstood the conversation, Y'ole stump you :gotcha

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

You said, "Never."

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

You're the dude now, dude. You took that out of context...talk about the "stump." That was a response to someone talking against prosperity. My point was that it takes money to evangelize the world.

The guy you gave as a reference you were stating that he evangelized without western money or at least that would be the context relative to the post I made that you were responding to. Sheez.....talking about spinning things

Re: Prosperity Gospel? This is worth listening to!
 

I figured there'd be an explanation.