Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

The Bible clearly warns us of a time in which people will be "tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine" (Ephesians 4:14). During this time people who do not develop a "love of the truth" will fall for deception and "believe a lie" (II Thessalonians 2: 10-11). On July 30 - August 1, 2009, Atlanta West Pentecostal Church will sponsor a conference designed to benefit pastors and church leaders as they endeavor to continue “steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine” (Acts 2:42). Topics scheduled for discussion include the nature of God, the doctrine of baptisms (water and Spirit), and current trends in theology. Other highlights of the conference include a luncheon at which questions may be posed to our guest speakers, an on-site bookstore featuring the works of our guests speakers, a performance by the award-winning Atlanta West Sanctuary Choir, and breakout sessions that will include tracks for youth and Spanish ministry. Our guest speakers for this event are Rev. David K. Bernard and Rev. Daniel L. Segraves.

www.doctrinalconference.com

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

Wish I could go!

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

While I cannot go because I am on the West Coast and trying to get well, I would encourage everyone who is in the area to go and hear Daniel Segraves, he is one of the best Theologians in Pentecost. I am sure it will be informative.

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

2009 Doctrinal Conference at Atlanta West Pentecostal Church
Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:30 pm to Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 2:00 pm EST
Lithia Springs, GA

Kinda short notice ain't it?

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

I agree! If it were closer I would go.

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

Any chance this is going to be webcast?

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

I may go - see my thread about it. I pray it will be a powerful revelatory meeting.

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

Well, I've (rather we) have known for many months. I just decided to post it now because I did not want this thread to be at the bottom of the bucket so to speak (since there is a large majority of people on AFF that could care less about doctrine).

Is it going to be webcast? Good question. Pastor has not said anything about that. I'll ask in church tomorrow night (Thursday). The good news is we always record our services so you can order a DVD as early as next week just by calling the church office.

Get this, we as a church have invited other churches outside the organization to witness to them about the Oneness of God. Our target audience is for churches who are Holy Ghost filled but are NOT baptised in Jesus Name to explain to them the necessity of Jesus Only baptism. Now thats what I'm talking about. (Way to go Pastor Johns!!!!!!!!)

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

WOW! What a novel idea!

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

The AoG?

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

Doesn't Paul teach us about dividing the body over various doctrines like, oh, "the doctrines of baptisms" along with the other things he mentioned?


I'm just sayin as much as I am wholeheartedly for Jesus Name baptism, and will never consider personally baptizing someone any other way and will never consider allowing my children to be baptized any other way (solely), I don't think that Christians who are baptized F,S, and HG are lost simply because of their baptism.


Is there any church that does everything exactly like the first church did?

So what we do that's different is acceptable because we do it and we have the Holy Ghost that bears witness that our different way of doing things is acceptable.

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

That will be an interesting Q&A. From what I understand, Bro. Bernard and Bro. Seagraves have different views on salvational doctrine. I believe they have debated the issue before.

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

Please read your Word with the understanding that the Holy Ghost has given you. Hebrews 6:2 has nothing to do with NOT telling someone about the doctrine of baptism however it has EVERYTHING to do with Christians who are already IN the TRUTH to begin to move/progress forward in their quest towards holiness. Start out by reading verse 1 of Hebrews 6 and I'll quote "Therefore leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ" If one does not have the basic foundation (elementary principles) one cannot possibly move on to progessive holiness if there is NO FOUNDATION. The sole purpose of any doctrinal conference is to lay the foundation of what we as Apostolics believe. Since there will be numerous denominations in attendance, we cannot possibly skip over the foundation and go straight into building a house. It will fall. With that said, I firmly believe and stand in agreement that if one is Holy Ghost filled but is NOT baptised in Jesus Name, they need to be told the truth (hence the reason why we as a church have decided to invite other people outside of our organization/denomination).

Now, if 100% of people in attendance already have the basic fundementals of The Truth (i.e. repentance, baptism in Jesus Name, infilling of the Holy Ghost) then Hebrews Chapter 6 would be a great chapter to quote since the basic concept of this chapter is that since the foundation has already been laid, its time to move on in your walk with Christ. I agree 100% with Paul when he clearly says we cannot "lay again the foundation" but that we need to "progress.....move forward" in our Christian walk. That being said, since there is only ONE Lord, ONE Faith and ONE baptism, one would at least need to attempt to do things the bible way instead of just saying "Is there any church that does everything exactly like the first church did?"

I'll leave these final words with you, no TRUTH equals no freedom. 100% Truth equals 100% freedom. And that freedom I speak of is the freedom from all erroneous doctrine. Until Jesus comes, there will always be people who need MILK preached to them as well as people like you and I who need MEAT preached to them. If only meat is served, we all need to toss out our new converts classes but since milk and meat needs to be preached, we as an Apostolic body need to find an equilibrium in our preaching methods, hence the reason why a "doctrine" conference is always going to be in order.

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

There are NO Christians who have NOT been baptized in Jesus Name just for the record.

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When someone is doing all they know to do, God honors that. I believe when He leads them into the truth, they're held responsible. Only God knows the true heart of a person - and yes, I've been baptized in Jesus' sweet name. Blessings to you.

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

God wrote the Book and inspired the men in that Book to preach what they preached. For the heart to be right it must be right with the Book not some warm feeling.
NO ONE is saved outside of obeying Acts 2:38 unless God is a liar.

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

While it might seem like a good idea to invite other churches to "witness" to them be very cautious in opening up something that has been dormant for many years. You will find that these ministers from other denominations are usually more educated and have a better understanding of church history and doctrine than their UPC counterparts. They might end up changing you more than you change them. Remember, they basically pay no attention to the Oneness movement because their influence has been minimal. The Apostolics just can't compete in the arena of ideas. Most of the large UPC churches that I know of are very sneaky about what they actually believe and a person could possibly attend church there quite a while before they ever hear anything about three-step doctrine or any of the other doctrines that are central to the UPC.

I have predicted that we will see a major battle over doctrinal beliefs concerning salvation within the UPC in the next few years. A possible way for this to happen will be if the UPC starts teaching their true doctrine without trying to fool people as to what they really believe.

Additionally, Dr. Seagraves, though I have never met him I credit him in part for my leaving the Pentecostal/Apostolic movement. My sister was a student at CLC and sent me the audio for his Romans and Galatians class way back in 2001. Growing up my whole life in the UPC I had never heard what Dr. Seagraves was teaching and through that God started changing my heart and preparing me to leave the UPC though it would be six years later. According to people that I know who have gone to CLC, an overwhelming majority of the students that graduate from there usually either leave the three-step doctrine or leave the Apostolic movement all together.

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

When people start studying without the lens of "to prove what I already believe to be the total truth'' it is dangerous to tradition. There is a whole world of knowledge outside of the UPC that most within have no idea that exists, Dr. Seagraves is simply opening that door. It is scary outside the boundaries that we thought kept us safe, but it is very fulfilling to know that God is bigger and greater than the small walls in which we had been confined.

We should all pray "...to know Him as He really is!" Knowing that if we were to ever reach that goal completely in this life we would simply explode, like the mosquito that bit the guy that had been eating the hot sauce. lol

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

I LIKE ALL THIS! SO TRUE! When people get tired of the double standards, hypocrisy, the "don't do as I do - just do as I say" attitude and start studying the Word for themselves and seeking God for fresh Revelation and loving people - their eyes will be opened too that there is a BIG NEW world out there they never dreamed of!

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

I don't think Dr Segraves or Bernard will have a problem articulating what they believe if asked by educated ministers from other churches.

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I agree. But both of these men are very good at dancing around the heart of the issue. Neither Seagraves or Bernard would come out and and say that they believe three-step doctrine and the Oneness of the Godhead and outward holiness standards and Baptism of the Holy Ghost as a part of the New Birth experience. These men have tried very hard to sound orthodox in their positions while upholding the traditions of the Apostolic movement.

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

I don't get it why are they having two men who do not believe what the other is saying is necessary for salvation teach at the same meetings. The last I heard DS doesn't believe Jesus Name baptism is necessary for salvation.

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Balance!

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Do you mean they won't come out and condemn to hell anyone who hasn't obeyed Acts 2:38, or who hasn't walked in holiness by striving against sin, or who is a Trinitarian?

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

How do you balance TRUTH and FALSE DOCTRINE???

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Does anyone really know what these men really believe? I have read a lot of Bernard's books and from a quick glance you could almost think that he has a position very close to classic christianity but then in the last chapters will try to line up UPC doctrine with Christianity.

I would bet money that Dan Seagraves is a greasy gracer but it is probably very hard to pin him down.

Both of these men seem to want other denominations to except the UPC as "normal" but view the UPC as having the truth.

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

Are you accusing Bernard of false doctrine?

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

Easy! One guy preaches truth for, say, 45 minutes, and the other guy preaches false doctrine for the same amount of time. :D (Which one is which? You decide! :D)

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It is more than that. These men don't seem to want to spell out their beliefs. The truth is that if they believe in the Water and Spirit doctrine and Acts 2:38 and Baptism with the evidence of tongues as essential to salvation then why not come out and say it. Why beat around the bush? This is what I mean by many moderate UPC churches are being a little sly by hiding what they really believe until they get folks into a side room bible study or class.

If a person really believes that you can't be saved without Acts 2:38 then why not preach it on TV and in the streets and anywhere that it can be taught. The truth is that you will rarely hear a UPC sermon that touches any of these ideas unless it is to a small body of believers.

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

Is DS for or against the standard for outward Holiness?

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No idea.

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I am pretty sure DS's stand on outward holiness is very typical of the UPC. He is the author of a book about the standard of uncut hair.

DS stays in the bible and I think he lets the Bible speak for itself and doesn't necessarily take certain positions just because everyone else does.

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

EDIT: I JUST CAME BACK TO THIS THREAD AND REALIZED THAT WHEN I MADE THE POST BELOW I INCORRECTLY THOUGHT WE WERE DISCUSSING DB, NOT DS. I HAVE NOT READ ANY DS BOOKS. PLEASE DISREGARD THE POST BELOW.

Hmmmm....I might have to disagree with your last statement. I remember several decades ago when he first published his book on "holiness" thinking that he was way too smart for some of the applications he extrapolated in that book.

The only thing he actually stood up for as not making sense was facial hair on men. Even then he justified the historical ban on it by connecting it to the hippie culture / rebellion. I was proud he indicated it really didn't apply today.

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Was that the revelation you got after eating your chilli. You come up with a lot of unbiblical opinions after a run to the border.

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No I don't know what B really believes for sure. I do know what DS believes.

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ALL the early Christians in the Bible had been baptized in Jesus Name read the Book of Acts. NOT ONE person since Pentecost has had their sins remitted without being baptized in Jesus Name.

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

What verse says the Phillipian jailer was baptized in Jesus name? Feel free to use the KJV.

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You tell us?????? Do you think Paul changed from the 16th to the 19th chapter?

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Hey Brother Epley, I believe they were all baptized in the name of Jesus! I have been told on here that I did not believe that but I do believe it and I have never baptized anyone any other way other than using the Name of Jesus in water baptism.

Re: Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)
 

I also believe that the Biblical record is clear that they baptized In Jesus name. It is only logical that if every instance where the formula is described it is in the name of Jesus that the other instances where no formula is described it was in the same way.

There is not one single recorded instance of water baptism being done in the "name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost".