This might of been on the forum already
 

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I wonder what he thinks now....

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"Neumann testified he believed praying for the girl was needed because all healing comes from God and he never expected her to die.

"If I go to the doctor, I am putting the doctor before God," Neumann said. "I am not believing what he said he would do."

Madeline died March 23, 2008, of diabetes on the floor of the family's rural Weston home as people surrounded her and prayed.

Her father was the last person to testify in his trial.

Neumann, who once studied to be a Pentecostal minister, preached to the jury about his faith in God's healing powers and cried out like he was talking to the Lord. He said he has been a born-again Christian since 1982."

What needs to "die" IS THIS TEACHING!

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". . . preached to the jury about his faith in God's healing powers . . ."

Suppose the jury bought it?

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.

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I hope he does not pray to God to keep him out of jail...Cause that will be let down #2..

I just wish people had a little more common sense

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He told jurors he couldn't seek medical treatment for his 11-year-old daughter Madeline — who suffered from undiagnosed diabetes — without disobeying God.

"I can't do that because Biblically, I cannot find that is the way people are healed," Neumann said.

So he read the Bible and he found no records of doctors or medical professions in there? I don't think he read it enough.

Of course, now I am trying to think of a time in the Bible where it says a doctor healed a person. Is that in there? Not that it changes anything, just trying to understand where this man is coming from.

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didn't god use Elija and Elisha to heal...But wait they are dead also like the apostoles that laid hands on people in Acts....Anyone see the connection here.....

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You see dead healed people?

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LOL Twisp

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The Bible's instructions and promises are clear.

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....

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I agree. ;)

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I agree, the process of healing is what this guy seems to have an issue with.

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What do you mean?

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Sad, tragic lunacy. Yet anyone who's been around Pentecost long enough will have heard people talking like this "dad."

His "argument" to the jury pretty much disproved and invalidated the entire Bible - if he was the only authority on its teachings. But he'll have a lot of time to contemplate that, and the rest of his life without a very beautiful young lady who could have brought him much happiness if he had allowed her to live.

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It seems, and this is just from reading the article, that he did not want to take her to the doctor to be healed. He seemed to think that they were healed by miracles from Jesus in the Bible, and that is how he thought his daughter would be healed. He said:

Neumann testified he believed praying for the girl was needed because all healing comes from God and he never expected her to die. "If I go to the doctor, I am putting the doctor before God," Neumann said. "I am not believing what he said he would do."

Whereas, the miracle of her being healed might have entailed her going to a doctor, it seems that he did not believe in that process.

Again, just my take from the article.

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If anything this news just fuels the fire for the "atheist people"

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If you believe in miraculous divine healing, I still don't see the problem. He trusted God more than he trusted doctors. He obeyed the Bible. What did he do wrong?

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But see Twisp Jesus is the one who healed in the bible so he put all of his faith in Jesus...

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That would not have been a miracle. That would have been natural (via medication which came from research -- human effort!) processes.

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And the deists! Don't forget us! ;)

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That would be a choice of definition. I fully believe that something done by a doctor, in a hospital or somewhere similar, can be a miracle from God.

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I just find it funny how he will fill you with the "holyghost"let you have this tripped out speaking in tongues experience and then you ask him for a simple favor only to be let down

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It has been many years since I talked to either of them but I do know them. My dad talked to them several times a week since he usually stopped in their coffee shop.

Plenty of the UPC'ers from that area are defending them. Their daughter has been completely forgotten since it is all about satan and the state persecuting the Neumann's.

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Well, she received her healing in Heaven. Right?

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Well, in some blog posts the parents have also blamed sin in their daughters life for her sickness..... So maybe not!

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Randy please tell me you are kidding?

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OK, that does it. I take back all the good things I said about them.

Sigh.

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Nope. Again, I am some inside info on this since I knew them and know many people who have (and still) talked to them regularly.
Also, they post regularly on various blogs and message boards.

I had to be careful on Facebook since I am friends with several people who are friends with them and had to delete posts concerning this whole fiasco.

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That is truly sad?

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I guess they don't believe God is bigger then the devil so I don't guess they have as much faith as they thought they did.

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It is sad, but more then that it infuriates me.
They were well on their way to owning a few acres of land and having a couple dozen or so disciples planting crops while Dale sat in the main house and "contemplated messages from God" all day.

I am not saying they were specifically planning that, but were/are of the right state of mind to completely jump off the deep end into sequestered cult territory.

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O no not the "C" word...

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A pastor I knew was told he had throat cancer. The doctors recommended chemo/radiation whichever, I'm not sure. The pastor felt sure that God would heal him. He really struggled with the idea of the treatments, as he felt it minimized his "faith in God". (I can understand his feeling here, and think I would have felt the same.)

He did finally get the treatments, at the convincing of his wife and his Sr. Pastor. And he WAS cured.

Could he/Would he have still been healed had he NOT gone to the doctor and followed through with the treatments?

Thoughts?

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There is a passage in the book of Ecclesiasticus (also known as "The Wisdom of Jesus the Son of Sirach" or just "Sirach") that speaks of medication and treatment by a doctor. This book is found in the older King James Version Bibles but was later deleted. It is also found in several of the Bible versions I have at home.

Ecclesiasticus 38:1-15 reads:

1 Honour physicians for their services,
for the Lord created them;
2 for their gift of healing comes from the Most High,
and they are rewarded by the king.
3 The skill of physicians makes them distinguished,
and in the presence of the great they are admired.
4 The Lord created medicines out of the earth,
and the sensible will not despise them.
5 Was not water made sweet with a tree
in order that its power might be known?
6 And he gave skill to human beings
that the pharmacist might be glorified in his marvellous works.
7 By them the physician heals and takes away pain;
8 the pharmacist makes a mixture from them.
God’s works will never be finished;
and from him health spreads over all the earth.
9 My child, when you are ill, do not delay,
but pray to the Lord, and he will heal you.
10 Give up your faults and direct your hands rightly,
and cleanse your heart from all sin.
11 Offer a sweet-smelling sacrifice, and a memorial portion of choice flour,
and pour oil on your offering, as much as you can afford.
12 Then give the physician his place, for the Lord created him;
do not let him leave you, for you need him.
13 There may come a time when recovery lies in the hands of physicians,
14 for they too pray to the Lord
that he will grant them success in diagnosis
and in healing, for the sake of preserving life.
15 a man sins in the eyes of his Maker
if he defies the physician.

Verse 15 can be linked to Proverbs 18:9. In some versions of the LXX it is used by some to show that God expects us to have enough sense to use whatever means (medical and other) are available.

"He who does not use his endeavors to heal himself is brother to him who commits suicide."

and remember that the Apostle Paul advised Timothy to drink wine instead of water because of his stomach problems and many infirmities (see 1 Timothy 5:23)

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Jesus said that those who are sick need a physician in Matthew 9:12

and Proverbs 17:22 says that medicine does good.

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I teach that God heals in different ways:

1. Natural healing. This is the way our body which is fearfully and wonderfully made responds to injury and sickness. If a bone is broken, it heals back in time. If there is a cut or gash, the body bleeds, then the area scabs over while healing takes place. Infections are fought by the body. Some times a heart produces new arteries for a natural bypass.

2. Assisted healing. Over time we have discovered certain herbs, manufactured drugs, procedures, etc. which assist healing. We have pain medications like aspirin, motrin, etc. that fight pain. We have antibiotics that fight infection. We sew up a wound so that the natural healing is facilitated. We set a bone, aligning it properly, so it is properly aligned when healing takes place. Surgery removes damaged organs and keeps the damage from spreading. Radiation and chemotherapy can kill cancer.

3. Accelerated healing. We see this often. Some times a person heals or recovers with assisted healing, but the process is greatly accelerated. Recovery may come much sooner than anticipated by the doctor because God has accelerated the natural or assisted healing process.

4. Miracle. Some times God acts and healing or recovery takes place when it was not expected to. People who have been told that they will die shortly are still alive years later. There is no explanation other than the intervention of God.

5. Ultimate healing. Any healing in this life, no matter how spectacular, is just temporary. This human body will die some day. That's an appointment we all must keep. When we die, our body goes to the grave, crematorium or whatever and our inner person goes to be with Jesus. That inner person in the presence of Jesus is sound, well, and whole. At the first resurrection our body will be raised incorruptible and immortal

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Good stuff, Sam. Thanks. (again)