Serious Question
 

Would you feel comfortable knowing that a leader (not necessarily a preacher) in your church was struggling with his/her eye gate (internet sites or mags) and yet still in a place of heavy use in the church?

What if this man or woman had struggled for a while, perhaps even giving in to the temptation, asking forgiveness, only to return to the temptation, and still wanted to teach others or be used in a leadership role?

How does the church deal with this issue?

No, I would not feel comfortable with this knowledge.

Deal with it carefully and scripturally! This and other similar issues are all too common in society in general and the church in particular. We certainly must deal with it but it must be dealt with in love according to Galatians 6:1.

A time of proving to one's self is always in order. Certainly having a trustworthy accountability partner who has integrity is a critical defense against the repetition of the specific sin!

Not much different, IMO, than a man having an anger issue with his wife. I have a great amount of respect for someone who is fighting to over come and may stumble. Hopefully they are moving in the right direction and are having less and less falls. For every man who has the integrity and honesty to admit his struggle and trust someone to tell them when he falls for accountability there are a hundred or maybe even a thousand who are just "quietly" in bondage.

I have worked with men who have admitted addiction to porn. I have never judged them and have only had compassion and told them that they needed to fight the good fight to be free from domination. I have always encouraged them to know that they can be free and that I will be their chief "cheerleader" and supporter. I have rarely been let down.

What if it was a pastor or minister? Would that be different?

I find it interesting that very few sermons focus on this issue. Is viewing porn considered normal, manly, and a rite of passage?

Not in my area. it is addressed on a regular basis. It is seldom the primary focus of the message but it definitely is mentioned often as a potential destroyer of many relationships on many levels, beginning with the relationship with God.

Not to me. Being bound and not trying to get free is one thing. But being honest and fighting for freedom and yielding to the Lord is completely another. A person like that who makes it is an excellent help to someone else who may be fighting the same battle.

Dobson published a statstic a number of years back that stated the 40% of pastors struggle with porn!! That is an astounding figure. I'm sure it is skewed by many main line guys....at least I would hope so, but with so many moral failures, I wonder.

Once again, the person's honesty would be more valuable to me than their failure. I can get somewhere with someone who is not hiding or is in denial.

Would you continue to use someone who had admitted a problem with this, or would you sit them down for a while?

Well, I preach on it. But I also preach about being in "slavery" to anything so porn is not my hobby horse, but I don't shy away from the subject either.

I don't know a man who has not viewed porn.... or done other things for that matter.

Porn does damage. Some can not function without it. Oh, and it is also a sin to view porn!!

I rarely "sit people down." If they have a problem, I want to help them. I don't want to call attention to the fact that they have a struggle. I will work with them. If they don't want help or don't work with me.....they won't be "set down" they will be removed. Actually, I try to work with them so that they will remove themselves because it is the right thing to do instead of me "firing" them.

It would be handled on a case by case basis. I don't believe there is a blanket answer. Certainly repeat offenses would warrant more thought about a time of specific consecration of their mind unto God and God's pleasure as opposed to his own.

But how is this any different from someone smoking? Wouldn't most leaders be considered unusable if they smoked even one cigarette while holding a UPC license?

I admire the consistency.

That's a tough one. If you're not the pastor, pray about it. If you are, deal with it.

I really do try to help people retain their dignity in every situation. It just may allow me to help them in the future. That doesn't mean that I will excuse sin in any way because I don't. My goal is restoration not embarassment.

There is definitely a problem with ANY addiction and that problem must be dealt with in mercy and compassion to the saving of the soul of the addicted. There is no difference in a cigarette and a porn site. They should both be treated as what they are, sin. If the sin is repented of... really repented of... then you accept that God has, as promised, forgiven them. If they continue in the sin then it should be dealt with according to scripture. The porn or the cigarette are merely symptoms of a greater soul sickness.

Amen! Well said!

I don't mean to stir a hornets nest, but does the rules change for child abusers?

Please everyone, stick to the issue. Personal references will derail this thread faster than a greased hood on a snowy hill.

I am obviously not MOW but the sins discussed so far are personal and individual in nature. What you are talking about is gross perversion and the injury of another. BIG difference between the two.

Not to be nosy, but who made a personal reference?

Yikes!

What about someone who gets there fiancee pregnant? Do you sit them down if they're heavy involved? And for how long?

I think porn does hurt others. Smoking does too. It robs children of their parents, and cheats marriages out of sweet time.

You can just about be assured that it is a problem in many churches.
Many men according to what I have read struggle with this sin.

Because "we" deal with this problem differently, in our churches, than other struggles that people have you'll very rarely have a man step up and admit this is his struggle.

If a brother could come to you and ask for for prayer and help with this struggle without fear of it always being held over his head, we'd see more people overcoming this problem.

I have a friend that recently came back to church after years away, he's a bible school graduate.

55 years old and he is a crack addicit and alcohol abuser.

Every 60 to 90 days he'll relapse, go on a bender, get stoned or whatever.

My phone will ring at maybe 3 or 4 in the morning, to come get him.

We talk, we pray, and he gets up and goes on. Each time he does a little better than the last.

His addiction is not much different than the porn addicts.

We have to believe that God forgives and that he requires us to forgive also.

I would. I don't know for how long.

I've had to deal with this one. I had a male SS teacher who was arrested for child molestation and is currently in prison for 15 years to life. The abuse was NOT with a child from our church. It hit the papers. He eventually repented, admitted to everything and asked for help. The judge was amazed at his repentance as was his attorney. I was honest with the church with what happened and yet still did my best to help him have some dignity. I never condoned or defended his sin. I defended him as someone who needed the Lord's help but made no excuses for him. So far, he is living for the Lord and has stated to me that if he can't get free from this, he never wants out of prison.

Free,

What do you do when a person thinks there is nothing wrong with porn? When they laugh about it, and consider it normal? What if they are in ministry?

I would gladly work with that person. I wouldn't invite them to be on my leadership team, but I would work with them and grant them unconditional love and support. They may just get free!!!

In general, I deal with sin no more publicly than it was committed.

With something of the nature you have mentioned, every situation is different, I would say, but you definitely need the wisdom of God.

Dunno PP..I only assist. I do not pastor and have never had to deal with it.

I did have one of my young people/guitar player come to me last year and cofess he had gotten his GF pregnant.

He set himself down. Pastor and I did not put any time on it. We told them to pray and when they felt ready to let us know when they felt comfortable to come back and play.

His GF was not involved in any ministry dept.

They just had their baby dedicated last sunday and are doing very good.

There is a big difference in the indirect effects versus the direct effects.

I am out of this discussion before it follows the trend of other threads where we are both there.:tiphat

Love ya, Bro!

Okey Dokey.

This is the signal for everyone to leave now.

I made the mistake of disagreeing again! ARGGGGHHHH!

And here I thought I was being pretty nice.

MOW.....

Love your attitude and spirit regarding this topic. I think it's always in order to extend grace and mercy. Unconditional love and support is what people need in order to heal and often times the "problem" they have is indicative that they haven't ever received enough of that, love and affirmation I mean. Their need takes them to places they shouldn't go.

I know that there is time when a "time out" is needed for sure and sometimes some kind of disciplinary action is necessary. This doesn't usually solve the problem though because the action is indicative of deep down need that is not going to be ministered to by ostracizing and shaming the individual. :nah

I've heard that fascination with and need for porn is often a control issue. ???

I agree with this to the point that someone admits they have a problem and want help.

PP has said this guy doesn't see anything wrong with porn. So, he admitting that he's not doing anything wrong.

I think it was pretty clear what I meant in my post. You felt to disagree with it. That is fine... I would just rather not let this deteriorate into another silly shoving match!

Please continue the discussion without me. It is a valid issue and one that needs to be addressed!

You're doing fine, don't bail!!

Folks that I have dealt with, at least the repentant ones, feel so ashamed and "dirty" that acceptance and mercy is vitally important to their deliverance.

Those who PP mentioned that think it is "normal", harmless and just part of manhood and should be accepted are DANGEROUS....especially if they are in the ministry! That is the kind of person I want to be far away from. That is the kind of person who will destroy lives.

I agree. This is a great post. I would add that the first time it is confessed and dealt with that Christian Counseling should occur for at least 6 months to a year. With the counseling, like Bro. Phil stated, an accountability partner is very necessary. After a year then the Pastor, the counselor, the accountability person, and the person in question should get together to discuss progress and boundary setting before allowing the person back into leadership roles. The final authority should be the Pastor and what he feels is spiritually the right thing to do for the individual as well as for the church as a whole.

Just my opinion.

Blessings, Rhoni

I used Pastor P's initial post and then a few that I read quickly that were made by MOW as a jumping off point for my post. Didn't see the one about the guy who sees nothing wrong with porn.

I can't imagine why a man who has a wife would rather spend time with these "images". I think it's indicative of immaturity and I would think it would get old pretty quick. I mean, when you have a loving relationship with a real live warm woman and access to intimacy and physical expression of love and need, why and how could picture -- whether photos or video be better than that?

JY started a thread on FCF one time about all of this. He was making the query as to whether or not it was okay for married couples to use porn or porn type material in the bedroom to spice things up.

It's a real issue in marriages and homes today. Maybe it always has been but people are much more open about it all today so it's more "in our face" as something that has to be dealt with and reckoned with.

Wow! I totally agree. Repentance is key.

Its when men (or women) continue in the sin and act like nothing ever happened and then preach "godliness" to others that my stomach churns.