Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

As everyone knows a hot debate is raging in our country regarding universal health insurance. Most conservatives fear Obama’s plan will lead to an entirely socialized health insurance system like that found in Canada and Europe. We have read discussions about the pros and cons of universal health insurance from many different angles. However, there is one possible effect of universal health insurance that I’ve not seen discussed, the effect of universal health insurance on the abortion industry.

Today the abortion industry thrives in private health care in the United States. Seeing that it is legal it goes relatively unregulated and unrecorded. However, in Ireland (where they have universal health insurance) abortion is strictly regulated in that it is permitted only if the pregnancy is a clear and present danger to the mother. Seeing that public funding fuels the Irish health care system elective procedures (such as abortion) are an issue of public funding and policy.

In the United States public funding for abortion services and agencies that offer abortion services are often denied funding under Pro-Life Presidents. However, the private industry still flourishes slaughtering nearly multiplied hundreds of thousands of unborn children a year. If the United States were to adopt a universal health insurance program using public funding all abortion services would be subject to a President’s decision to deny funding to health care facilities nationally. Therefore if any hospital or clinic offered abortion services, they could be denied the public funding they receive from the public health insurance system. In order to maintain funding from the public health insurance program all hospitals and clinics would cease to offer abortion services. Those clinics providing only abortion services would loose all funding and be put out of business overnight.

The power of public policy regarding abortion is one strategic way Irish Pro-Life Catholics have been able to maintain a pro-life culture in Ireland.

Imagine a prolife President under a universal public health insurance program issuing an executive order to deny funding or payment to any medical office, facility, or practitioner who provides abortion services. Access to abortion from coast to coast could be greatly restricted in 24 hours.

Thoughts?

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

There is a high correlation between abortion and breast cancer. I can explain it. In catholic countries where aabortion is illegal, there are lower cancer rates. The plan also will mandate coverage be part of every policy. It appears they will remove the FOCA and demand even catholic hospitals give abortions if patients want them.

jillstanek.com covers this topic well. Abortion is the hottest issue out there in terms of the Politicians wanting to make it a political argument and not a religious one.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Coadie, I’d like to know what Catholic countries you’re talking about so I can take a closer look.

Ah, yes – if a Prochoice president is in power. Public funding is immediately cut to agencies providing abortion services under Pro-Life Presidents. Universal health insurance would open an entirely new battlefield in the abortion war. A battlefield where the constitutionality of a procedure wouldn’t be in question… access would become an issue of funding based on it being elective or necessary to save a woman’s life.

Coadie, while abortion is a religious issue for those of us with religious values… for most of society it’s a political issue. In today’s world you can’t regulate, record, or restrict anything on the grounds of it violating your private religious sensitivities. You have to realize that the life blood of all institution in the modern world is money. Whoever controls the money… controls society.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

http://www.abortionbreastcancer.com/abc_summary.htm

I realize it is a political issue. But it is still in the realm of health. when we add money, social engineering should want to reduce activities that turn into costs.

If we break women into 3 groups. Never have been pregnant, have had a baby and have had a pregnancy artificially terminated. We see that giving birth causes a reduction in cancer rates. I was just a little indirect, but now we see that cancer rate starts going upward in the ages of the 50's. Now if i give you samples in Latin america where abortion is forbidden, some still leave and have abortions. But we still see in Latin america where it is legal, the already have a lower life expectancy by that meaning they die of other causes before getting cancer. So then we go to meta studies and age ajustments. If we add a family history of cancer to having had an abortion, we almost attain a death sentence.
Now with Obamascare, he has it written that we can't sue the federal government for malpractice. But they won't disclose risks.
This is one piece of motivation to remove all abortion related laws at the state level.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

As you can see, cutting funding for all abortion services would also become an issue of public health and cost savings. If funding for facilities providing abortions was to be cut it would reduce the number of breast cancer cases thereby saving the system big money. People speak pocket book... sad... but true.

Why sue the Fed for malpractice if a doctor is negligent?

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

I think, not sure on this, but I think the doctors will be protected against lawsuits. I think that is part of the deal.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

I didn't spell that out. If the doctor has to have the consent of the Feds and the outcome is detrimental, you can't sue the Feds because that is the law. It was not the docs decision.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Docs not protected. The feds are. You see your family doc with a headache. he calls the feds and you get pills. You come back and he sees an occular impairment and headaches still there. He schedules a Neurologist. Then you wait, They don't approve MRI. Time goes by and another visit and neurosurgen gets called and you have an inoperable brain tumor. Took 4 months to long to get a craniotomy scheduled. can't sue the feds for dragging their feet. Sue the doc for what? He didn't operate. Who sues the VA? The Air Force docs also have immunity. Federal medicine will let the Feds get the money and the docs get the risk.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

I think the reality is that any president who tried to do that would be committing political suicide.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Originally Posted by Aquila

Imagine a prolife President under a universal public health insurance program issuing an executive order to deny funding or payment to any medical office, facility, or practitioner who provides abortion services. Access to abortion from coast to coast could be greatly restricted in 24 hours.

Thoughts?

If they follow suit on the delay for coverage, it could turn out to be a mute point. Now that would be good. :)

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

The expression we look for is named "tort reform"
These malpractices are civil torts.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Coadie, I think you're really misinformed as to how Obama's plan is envisioned to work. Ultimately, after all is said and done, all Americans will be able to buy into a government subsidized health care plan like those possessed by members of Congress. I work for the government and I too have a government plan. It doesn't work the way you're describing it. You see essentially the United States government will approach the major PRIVATE insurance providers and use the bargaining power of the American people's tax money (much the way government uses the bargaining power of government employees) for a health insurance policy that covers all Americans. When the American government says, "We want to purchase insurance plans for 3 hundred million tax paying Americans.", with that kind of contribution the premiums will be VERY affordable. Essentially the United States government will pick up all Americans as though they too were government employees like me. With that kind of contribution from tax payers the premium most Americans will be expected to pay will be in the basement. Again, it's a contract between the United States government and PRIVATE insurance companies to cover all Americans. This will also generate competition between the insurance companies regionally using market forces (gotta love Capitalism!) to bring the premiums down even further as each insurance provider competes for the bid. It will be the biggest insurance coverage contract in history. Let's say that in your region UHC (United Health Care) gets the contract. You will have to choose... either purchase insurance on your own with the going market rate, sign up for a policy offered by your employer... or sign up for the policy mirroring that of those in Congress offered by UHC for all American citizens. Let's say you sign up for the UHC policy subsidized by the government. Now if you go to the doctor you give them your UHC health insurance card just as though you were a government employee like me and they will give you treatment like they do me and my family. Your doctor will then file the claim with the insurance company for payment. The only way you'll be denied any kind of treatment is if it is elective or not covered by your policy. Now here's where the plans like Congress come in... you'll possess the same coverage as your Congressmen. You'll only be denied treatment if it's something that your Congressmen would be denied treatment for. These procedures are typically elective and cosmetic. You'll be issued a prescription for your pills just as you would if you had my government subsidized plan. You'll be able to schedule an MRI and have it done ASAP as with my government subsidized plan.

Coadie, I'm a government employee with a government subsidized plan through UHC. It's not the Cadillac plan like those in Congress but it's far better than anything corporate is offering and I've never been denied coverage for anything. Whoever is feeding you this line of bull your spewing owes you an apology my brother. And in the name of Christian ethics... you really should strive to tell the truth not wild scary tales of lies and misinformation parroted by right wing spin doctors.

It's one thing to say that you don't believe you should have a government subsidized insurance plan because you don't believe tax payers should fit that kind of bill. However, it's entirely another when you don't tell the truth about the plans on the table.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Oh, one more thing... my friend working for a major company pays almost $500 dollars a month and the policy covers him only 80%. Now, if he wants, he can have regular deductions from his pay check (in addition to his monthly premium) placed in his MSA to save up for routine medical expenses so as not to drive up his premium. But here's the kicker... if he doesn't use the money before years end, the company takes the money back!

Now look at me (a government employee with my government subsidized plan), I pay only $40 a month for a high deductible plan with an HSA. My deductible is $4,000. Government drops $3,000 dollars into my HSA every year. Since it's an HSA... that money accumulates as long as I hold the policy. With every year I have an additional $3,000 dropped into my Health Savings Account. I already have a little over $6,000 in my account as we speak. The moment I spend $4,000 out of my HSA for the high deductible... I'm covered 100% no matter what my family needs. That means I have a little over $2,000 left, and at the first of the year I get an additional $3,000 dollars dropped. Oh... and since it's a "savings account" I can use the account for more than just medical expenses. If my car breaks down and we're strapped, I can pay for it out of the HSA. However, I have to pay taxes on what I use and there's a 10% penalty.

Oh those terrible government health care plans!!! ROFL

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

That doesn't exactly sound like "death panels" to me. :ursofunny

Imagine the burden it would take off of the entire system if we insured everyone in this country. Rates could do nothing but decrease while coverage expanded. Sounds like a fair deal to me.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Is this fact or speculation?

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

I heard a senator today who used to be a judge say the way it is written right now it would go to the bureaucrats and they would enterpretate as they see fit. He says it needs clarification on what they really are wanting in regards to the death panel. (he did not call it the death panel, that is the new term)

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Esther, the government doesn't have the employees or the resources to provide coverage AND become a health insurance monopoly. You've heard time and time again from advocates alike, it's a plan that will essentially extend the plans offered to those in Congress to EVERY American. Those in Congress are not covered by a big government system... they are covered by a private insurer. It's only subsidized by the Government like my plan because they are essentially government employees.

All this "death panel" stuff is misinformation from the right wing.

I'm a government employee... we're really concerned with this because essentially it could INCREASE my taxes and my premiums to lower your premiums so that the system will attain a balance.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Bingo!

The reason why your premiums continue to increase is because the numbers of the uninsured are increasing. As they seek care in ERs they don't pay the bill. In order to make up the loss the health care industry raises the cost of health care. When the cost of health care increases your premiums increase. All to pay for the uninsured who are paying nothing toward their health care expenses. If we covered all Americans prices would deflate as the health care industry would finally be being paid for the work they do. And get this... every America would pay SOMETHING toward their health care costs instead of the uninsured passing that cost down to me and you.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

I agree 100%. I'm convinced that to fix the problem EVERY American has to be insured and I'm fairly certain that is going to require mandating health insurance. I'm fine with incentiveizing and rewarding those who will purchase it for the first time with a tax credit of some sort, but it has to be required I believe.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Amen. Everyone is going to have to suck it up and pay something by getting coverage. No more free rides.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

It's really amazing to me how so many can't see that all this "death panel" business is just a political misinformation tactic. The right wing wants us arguing over the buzz words "death panel" so that the American people don't hear the actual plans on the table without their spin doctors.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Yeah it's easier to score political points and keep names in the spotlight(aka Palin) by reverting to the goofiness and "shock jock" stuff that scares people.

It's crazy the amount of people who will just take their word and never do an ounce of research into what is actually going on. Alot of those poor senior citizens who have about stroked out at these healthcare meetings have been whipped into a frenzy by Limbaugh, Hannity and the like and are scared to death.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

It is crazy. Political conservatism appears to be in meltdown terrorizing the American people with outlandish propaganda. We all know that the plan being drafted by the liberals isn't perfect... but at least it's a plan and we can make changes where necessary as issues arise. It's becoming evident to most that we can't go down this road much longer without ruining the health and prosperity of our children and grandchildren.

That's why I've abandoned political conservatism. I'm more of a left leaning centrist when it comes to politics.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

I'm sorry to bust your bubble but it is NOT misinformation. As I stated on some thread here, I heard a Senator that was a judge before he took the senate seat say that the way it is written right now, it could in fact be interpreted as a death panel that it needs to be clairified. So it is NOT about misinformation.

I'm amazed at the number of people, and I must admit they have ALL been young people have fallen for Obama's proproganda on this health care issue.

I agree our health care needs fixing, but not the way the government wants to fix it. The last thing we need is a government run health care. They can't even balance a budget and we want to turn something as important as our health care to a bunch of bureaucrats? NOT ME!

I hope America will wake up to the real agenda here.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

If they're going to mandate health insurance, they'd better lower the rates. My husband has insurance, but we can't afford to add me to his policy. It would cost more than our house payment.

I don't take a free ride, either. I just don't go to the doctor.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

: Obama lies about AARP endorsementBy Michelle Malkin • August 11, 2009 05:30 PM

President Obama assailed “wild misrepresentations” by his opponents at the Portsmouth town hall today.

But he wildly misrepresented his position on single payer.

And he wildly misrepresented the AARP’s position on Obamacare:
Obama gives Misinformation. He says AARP supports his plan. The say they don't. Why do you support Obama who provides misinformation?
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/11...p-endorsement/

POTUS calling the Kettle black

I want the government to stop cranking out misinformation like Obama did. Who does he need to get reported to?:eeeew

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Government workers don't have that problem. I think Obama said a health plan for a family was running 13,000 dollars a year. If we mandate all small companies to furnish insurance we can see 2-3 million laid off. What problem does that solve?

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Is this just a knee-jerk reaction? You realize that private health insurance will still be available, just as it is today?

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

No, haven't you heard him say more than once they plan to get rid of the private health insurance? Even the woman from CA. can't remember her name said the same thing, and the crowd went wild. makes me wonder if Acorn was there???

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

We can play videos all day where Obama says private insurance will be replaced by a federal plan only. Twisp won't believe it.
When people decieve themselves, it is over. They live in their own little neurotic fantasy.

Obama will give out a lot of drugs to the neurotics. Then they will dread losing federal Prescription coverage and free pills. ( of course the conservatives know the pills aren't free)

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Where did he say he wanted to get rid of private health insurance? Please try and provide an entire source this time and not an edited one.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Does the AARP support Obama care?

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Market forces my dear... your rates are so high because we are fitting the bill for millions who aren't covered and aren't paying a dime on their medical bills. In addition over 25% of the cost is administration costs due to the duplicity in our system. We need a health care database so that you don't need office staff in ever office processing applications to gather information that's already been provided a dozen times. When all Americans are covered and provders are being paid we'll see these inflated prices drop. That's why it has to be a mandate.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Commentary isn't news... or is it fact.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Geesh Coadie... it's becoming even more evident with every post that you don't know the Obama plan. This too isn't an issue.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Esther, he plans on getting rid of the private health insurance only paradigm.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

Wow. You folks are REALLY misinformed. Like I said, I work for the government and policy review is part of my daily routine. None of this scare tactic is reality.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

The mandated health care will still have to be affordable for all people. Auto insurance is required, but if I can't afford it, I can not have a car. I can ride the bus, carpool, or walk.

I can't not have a body.

I'm not sure that mandating it is going to immediately bring the prices down.

Re: Universal Health Insurance & Abortion:
 

I read the 1018 pages several weeks ago. Apperently you may not be familiar with insurance.

I have purchased health plans for employees for over 30 years. You must be a government worker? And who pays for your coverage?

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Twisp, let me make something clear to you, you don't have to believe what I post, your privledge. I however, could care less if you believe what I post, but I am NOT your researcher. If you want to confirm it do your own research. I am not posting for you. I am posting the information and if you want to read it fine, if not, fine. But there are those here that don't have their heads stuck in the sand saying I know this can't be true. Obama would never do such a thing. Funny you seem to believe the msm without entire source of documentation.