Stonekings Covering
 

I made an observation on the following thread, post #100: (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...777#post794777)

http://leestoneking.com/images/Proph..._Richman_2.jpg

http://leestoneking.com/images/Proph..._Wall_copy.jpg

1 Corinthians 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

With all that time and energy Stoneking spends teaching about women not cutting their hair because women are supposed to pray with their head covered: Why is Lee Stoneking doing exactly what Paul told us not to do and dishonor his head (Jesus Christ) by praying with his head covered?

Hypocrisy?

Re: Stonekings Covering
 

Does he have a Facebook account or a blog where we can ask him? That way we don't have to waste time and energy wondering, but could discuss what he really believes. :-)

I agree with your next post on the other thread when you said that maybe this helps the theory that Paul was speaking culturally. (I probably ripped what you said to shreds, sorry.)

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You'll love this, but I believe if he is at the temple wall in Jerusalem in these pics, the Jewish laws of that place require certain clothing in adherance to Jewish traditions. One of those traditions is the wearing of a skull cap. I can't look it up right now, but will do a search tomorrow if no one can confirm.
On the other hand, he preaches about hair, not hats-men and women. So by my understanding of his view of scripture: since his hair is cut, with or without the cap he is uncovered.

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Why does this logic not surprise me now that I have been on this forum for a while?

(Now I brace myself for the "If his hair is cut, but down to his waist...." stuff. But that is what this logic does, it starts all kinds of more illogical thinking because it just doesn't make sense to make the covering hair - in my opinion of course. LOL)

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Oh, let's not start a hair argument-what anyone here thinks of hair is their business as far as I'm concerned on this forum.

However, to pick at any person by name without them being here to defend themselves irritates me, and I'll defend them some way just for that fact.

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Bump for seekingone from the "If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF" thread:

"This forum would be seriously uninteresting and lacking balance.I learn from both ends of the spectrum on here and I don't think either end should complain about the other being here.But I would like to point out that the name of this forum is Apostolic FRIENDS Forum, meaning we should be friends and act like friends. While I am honest with my friends, sharing my opinions, asking questions and letting them answer, I respect them because that is what Jesus would do and I also want to stay friends.I think we could keep everyone happy if we treated everyone like friends, even if we might not want to go to each other's church."



:thumbsup

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For those who don't have an issue praying covered... Would I be received with a hat on in your church? I got the haircut and all - if that counts.

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Sure, come anytime! More men wear hats here than women, though most do take them off when they enter the building-respect for one of those old American traditions or a cultural thing, since that's where we are...

:gotcha

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Strange... wonder how that got started...

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In the Middle Ages and even back into antiquity a man would remove his head gear as a sign of respect and homage. It was a way of making oneself a bit more vulnerable and saying, "I'm not here to threaten you..." My bank has a sign that asks people to remove motorcycle helmets and related head gear. It's a way of "showing yourself." By "showing yourself" you lower the level of tension and alarm that your arrival may have caused.

The hand wave gesture is similar. It was a way of showing that a person had nothing in their hand, in particular a weapon.

To even be allowed to approach the Western Wall men have to wear a head covering. There are boxes with kippot available on site for use.

Here's the rules: http://www.sacred-destinations.com/i...stern-wall.htm

You could just push your way through and demand your rights to pray with an uncovered head, but I pretty much guarantee a small riot will ensue. You will be arrested, and by the time the police or soldiers get there you will probably be glad to see them.

Re: Stonekings Covering
 

In many cultures, particularly Semitic ones, there is a tradition that the wearing of headgear is a sign of humility. By not "showing yourself" you are assuming a humble posture. With your head covered and bowed (in prayer or submission) you are gesturing that you pose no threat to those around you. It is considered a sign of humility.

I suppose that it's because we humans have so many apparently contradicting customs for how we show submission that we usually assume a "shoot first, ask questions later" policy.

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See what I mean, you know everything, for crying out loud. I don't even know why I bother to post when you're online. And by the way, what happened to that cool self-portrait (or I assume it was) that was up yesterday?

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I'm just bashful. I only put up a real pic of myself because Hoovie made me. I took it down as soon as he turned away to take a bite out of his taco. Somehow a fidgety Muppet seems to suit me too.

And I don't "know everything." I am amazed by everything however, so at some point or another most things will have caught my attention. I then start carrying on as if anyone's interested in my ravings. There's probably a cure for this but I don't mind, really.

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I think the point is that since LS believes the covering refers to uncut or short hair (depending on the gender in question), wearing a cap would not be inconsistent with his own teachings, OR his interpretation of scripture. It makes the "hypocrisy" accusation null and void in this instance.

Unless someone teaches that men should remove their hats during prayer, and women should wear hats or veils during prayer, (which LS does not teach), then they should take no issue with women going without veils or men keeping their hats on. :coffee2

Now, I think LS is way off on his hair teachings, generally speaking, but the comments about his Jewish hat are just silly, because it doesn't contradict a single thing the man believes or teaches.

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But the hats pictured don't really go with the rest of his outfit either. I think it's just plain silly of you to defend someone who isn't even trying to be sartorially correct.

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I'm embarrassed to admit that I now have to go look up "sartorially." :blush

It Pays To Increase Your Word Power. :D

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I will await my expected beatings...

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I'm trying to be good, pel, and I'm so tired I feel a little green around the gills. I think I should just go to bed.

So...


You've been spared. :D

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1 Cor. 11:4

This is Pauls teaching given by inspiration of the Spirit. Culture has nothing to do with it. It is an ordinance of the Church. Stoneking is in violation tho he does not believe it. He is making the commands of Christ of none affect by his tradition.

Re: Stonekings Covering
 

If you feel this is the unalterable truth and the only interpretation, by all means, go call the man and teach him the error of his way. Don't accuse him on a discussion board he isn't a part of. :nah

:foottap

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:thumbsup

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What is the topic of discussion on this thread Missourimary?

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I am NOT now nor have I ever been a Stoneking fan but he teaches that LONG hair is the covering NOT an articial covering.

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To the Jewish men, the wearing of a Kippah or Yarmulke, as it is called, is a remembrance that there is always someone (God) over them. Yarmulke means "in awe of the King." I happily don one whenever I enter a Synagogue. It is a Jewish custom which I respectfully follow. Paul did the same. :D

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Well, Michael, that is your opinion, based on the idea that it is a physical covering rather than hair. :) I suppose you believe the same about me, since I believe my long hair is a covering, RATHER than a hat or veil.

No matter, the point is that the statements about LS being a hypocrite for wearing a hat during prayer don't hold up. One is a hypocrite when one says one thing and does another. LS says one thing--and does it. :coffee2

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Paul follow the law because there was temple still standing. When the temple was destroyed in 70ad it was destroyed with all the record of every single hebrew with the exception of Jesus (the bible Mathew and Luke). We don't follow the traditions of man, but of God. we don't become like them, they have to become like Christ. The jew of today has no way of tracking down his or her lenieage. We as Christians don't were Kippah because we don't mourn after a temple because we are the temple of the Holy Ghost. They need that temple to have access to the precense of God. Christians don't need that physical temple. A jew believes according to the Talmud that Christ is dead in his own bown movements because he was born of roman soldier that raped mary, and you are going to wear a Kippah. why stop there, wear a hindu monk attire when you visit those temples.

The only reason Paul follow the law is because the temple was still there. during that time 2 kingdoms were running the physical and the spiritual kingdom Gal 4 the physical kingdom (the law system, the physical temple) had to be removed just like ishmael, that way the spiritual kingdom can go forward (issac).

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I really don't think it's "his" (Lee S.) tradition so much as him being obedient to the rules and regulations that govern the area in proximity to the Western Wall.

Tell you what Michael, next time you're over there just push past all of the Jewish caretakers pleading with you to stop, and just strut right up to the Western Wall, raise your hands and speak in tongues.

Let me know ahead of time when you'll be there because this sounds like a great YouTube documentary in the making. Then before they can arrest you, run down to the entrance to the Temple Mount itself, charge up the stairs and... I dunno, do whatever you feel led to do.

Pray in tongues, put your foot in the impression of the Prophet's "footprint" on the Rock at Moriah to compare shoe sizes. Just kind of roll with it and I'll keep the camera rolling.

When you get out of the hospital you will be deported and banned from the Holy Land for life. But I'll have a great YouTube video.

On the other hand, you could just put on the little hat like everybody else.

Re: Stonekings Covering
 

What Paul did in Temple via vows and ritual was temporary. Regarding covering heads in prayer though he was clear with the Corinthians.

I would expect the Jews today to cover - because Christ is not revealed or exposed in their hearts and minds. For Christian men though, Christ is revealed and if he covers to pray it is dishonorable.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7[B]A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God;

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Right on target again. When I was at the wall, they wouldn't even let you come in to the area of the wall unless your head was covered. I also took my shoes off to walk through the Dome of the Stone. I am no defender of the King of Stones but jumping him for obeying the customs at the wall is weak.

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:thumbsup

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How about wearing Islam garb while in their area due to their customs or traditions. Not me. Not Islam, not Jewish, not Buddist, not anything but Christian. It is THEIR thing, not a Christians. We should not honor any of the dead customs or give legitimacy to other religions. We are to separate ourselves from these things.

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This is an example of a Jewish custom that I would have a serious problem just going along with in light of the scriptures.


They don't acknowledge Christ as their head.
We do.

I don't agree with LS actions as depicted in the pictures.

I still respect him highly.

Re: Stonekings Covering
 

*sigh* Some of us seem to relish creating problems and issues where there clearly are none.

It is simple...

If one wishes to pray at the Jerusalem Wailing Wall, then honoring the customs and traditions practiced should be a given.

If one chooses not to follow the customs and traditions practiced, then don't pray at the Wall.

LS chose to follow their custom and tradition...his choice...no biggie, IMHO.

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Personally, I see no benefit in praying at the wailing wall, unless one had a somewhat preoccupied bend towards the idea of alleged holy physical places, which I think went out with the Old Covenant. Hebrews 9:1 shows the Old Covenant system had worldly sanctuaries. Not the new. And I am not interested in wearing any religious garment in order to pray at a place required by those who are non-Christian in order to pray at certain geographical places. ...whether to display a cool photo or not. It won't enhance my prayers. But, like Barb says, if someone wishes to do so, then knock yourself out. :) No biggie.

My thoughts, anyway.

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Well Mike, you and I can stand hand in hand on this one! Wasn't that the entire theme of the book of Hebrews....The new way is better?

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Precisely! And the old is gone.

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See there.....we're gonna end up best buddies after all! We'll be trading Christmas cards this year!

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No biggie if you dont believe Pauls admonition against a man praying/prophesying with his head covered.

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I didnt call him a hypocrite. I said he was in violation of Pauls teaching.

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Chritsians need to drop all this holyland stuff. That wall is just stones now nothing special about it, kinda like humans without the Gods presence.