If the conservative Apostolics left the AFF
 

This forum would be seriously uninteresting and lacking balance.

I learn from both ends of the spectrum on here and I don't think either end should complain about the other being here.

But I would like to point out that the name of this forum is Apostolic FRIENDS Forum, meaning we should be friends and act like friends. While I am honest with my friends, sharing my opinions, asking questions and letting them answer, I respect them because that is what Jesus would do and I also want to stay friends.

I think we could keep everyone happy if we treated everyone like friends, even if we might not want to go to each other's church. :heart

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

Amen, seeking one!!!!

:thumbsup

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

You are right Seeking One, what makes one apostolic is subjective, friends we should all understand. Whether intended or not, EA's thread is very divisive, because it accentuates differences rather than what we have in common.

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

But they did leave. A couple of times.

And they're really not "conservatives" because their agenda is to introduce novelties into the Apostolic movement.

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

Why, schport....

I are one of tchose conshervative aposotloics, alcohiholicsss, peoplesh....


:thumbsup

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

:foottap

Novelties? What we talk about may be new or novel to you, but it isn't to those of us who consider ourselves conservative.

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

Love ya Sis! You know that, don't you?

But just from my time in the UP of C I saw one particular crowd that was always running up to the podium with yet another new resolution to introduce new language and new procedures to our grand ol' fellowship.

And the folks introducing all of these NEW things called themselves "conservatives."

Real conservatives conserve the past. Real conservatives are slow, even reluctant to change time honored ways. These folks were eager to tear down everything that had been built by our elders in order to introduce their new vision of "Progress." That's not what a real conservative does.

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

I think I'm very confused right now...
Not to hijack the thread, but do you think there are no real conservatives on here, then? Why not, if not?

Most conservatives, on and off this board, that I know-though I won't presume to speak for leadership-are true conservatives by your definition.

For me, sometimes I'm right of right and other times I'm just far right of left. And, being a woman, I'm at all times just plain right! :lol

But I do consider myself conservative, and I have no agenda -except getting married, but that isn't a board issue so certainly shouldn't count-right? :nah :)

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

Within the Apostolic movement the self described "conservatives" have introduced a lot of changes. In the political world and the broader culture, it is "liberals" who introduce change and want to over turn the established order.

Check out the Manual of the Pentecostal Church, Inc. http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=22342

This is the manual that was used as a guide at the time of the merger. Notice the use of the word "trinity" to describe the Oneness of God. Notice also how salvation came at the time of conversion. The "old timers" here fellowshipped Trinitarians and considered all sincere Christians to be saved.

Those are the kinds of things that many of the self described "conservatives" among us have sought to over throw. They introduced new language to the Articles of Faith and the Fundamental Doctrine to try and change the UPC to become more of what they wanted.

Again, "liberals" introduce change. "Conservatives" conserve the past. I consider myself to be a rather solid conservative. I fellowship Trinitarians and believe that all sincere Christians are saved - just like my Apostolic Faith forebears believed.

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

We all have our personal opinions of what a REAL conservative is....

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

So true Sis A. and you know what...whether we label ourselves "real" conservatives or "real" liberals........God knows who His Real Ones are.

It scares me to see how easily some of us can bicker and fight and tear each other apart, and then think that we are alright with the Lord.

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

No matter what we call standards if we fight and devour one another we are murders...sounds more serious that how long a sleeve is!

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

That is true.... But aren't such trivial issues often the catalyst which causes bloodshed?

Is this why legalism is condemned so strongly (like witchcraft)?

The "fruits" of it is wholesale slaughter among brothers and sisters.

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

You know I have always heard churches usually split over small things not big things...so I guess that is why some people seem to enjoy killing each another...May God grant us mercy to SEE HIM even through eyes that see different than our eyes...May we focus on the eternal and not the earthly...

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

I guess my question would be, "Then why bother with it at all?"

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

Most of the cons have already left. I think the better question would be what will happen when the moderates leave?

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

What do you mean by that?

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

Sleeve length, facial hair, ear rings, etc. You know, the long list of forbiddens. I'm not trying to start a fight here, I just honestly wonder why it's even an issue. It causes SO much division and is a HUGE stumbling block to those outside the faith.

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

I personally am not asking anyone to change anything here on our forum. I think we have so many things in common we do not have to fuss on our differences. It is not like we are someone's pastor...lol...
I come to the forum to enjoy people, to talk, to convey my thoughts BUT not to say hard cutting things. Most know how I live however most know I am a friend to all that wants to be friends. Jesus lived and had many high standards of living however the only ones he condemned were the ones that stood around condemning others...He lived what he believed and His love was shown by the life He lived and the way He died.

Far more lessons are taught by the life we live not by what we say...

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

I know you're not asking anyone to change and I agree with everything you said. I know I'm asking for a Utopia that will never exist, but I honestly wonder what pentecostalism would look like without the stumbling block of manmade, legalistic rules.

By the way, do you have the $350 yet for the fellow that's clothing the poor?

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

Thank you for explaining what you were talking about...I don't always catch on! lol...
I do think it is ok to express how we believe...and whatever we believe but I do not think we gain anything by fussing and fighting over scripture.

I hope I am making sense. For example...I have never cut my hair I feel that is what the Lord requires and have said that HOWEVER I am not making fun or those that feel different than I do. Beards were worn in Bible days only someone very shallow would say otherwise...for many years it has been a custom not to wear beards in many circles. My father in law was one of the greatest christian men you could ever meet and he wore a mustashe. It was his custom in his country. Beards can become a symbol of pride...so the heart plays a great part in our life.
We all know jewelry was worn in the Bible...Sarah our mother in the faith wore it...Rebecca was given her jewels...and on and on however we do know that many times it became a downfall to God's people and PRIDE caused them to err...
In the circles I mostly visit I see watches that are really not just a time piece they are worn to impress and cost LOTS of money...pins on peoples dresses that would never wear a necklace...and on and on...so we could go on all day and for months and years deciding what is right or wrong but somewhere down the road a person has to have THEIR own experience with God and decide for themselves what God requires for them.

Shoes of all kinds of hides...belts....purses....perfumes that cost way up there... Churches and Homes that cost millions...cars that are beyond words...

So dear ones remember IN THE LIGHT OF ETERNITY GOD JUDGES US BY OUR WHOLE LIFESTYLE...Maybe we should read about heros of the past that did great works for God...one of the greatest virtures was humility.



Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
(Matthew 5:5 NIV)





Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle
and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
(Matthew 11:29 NIV)





Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the
greatest in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 18:4 NIV)

Of course the apostles and saints of the first century church also commended humility, as the writings of Paul, James and Peter attest:

Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with
one another in love. (Ephesians 4:2 NIV)

Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
(James 4:10 NIV)

All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another,
because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the
humble." (1 Peter 5:5 NIV)



That does not mean God wants us to live in a shack, drive a car that is falling apart however we must remember all earthly things that brings pride to the human heart are ashes only...and live according to that standard.

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

Not yet...But that little pastor believes it is coming...my son called and said the pastor already had everything ready by faith to take to the people.

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

Please pray for me. I do want to be kind to everyone.

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

Sister Janice, if I lived in Brazil I would come to be with you guys everywhere you spoke. I could listen to you and read your posts all day! (Lots of ooo's and xxxx's) Thanks for your thoughtful post and the truth it holds.

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

Well-- First, Renda and I would make sure that you and Abi are tied tightly into your AFF seats with duck tape. You two aren't going anywhere... and a few others would be tied to their seats too... They know who they are-- the formerly moderate but now labeled the ultra con crowd of AFF... I just don't have time to make a list. :D

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

Thank you dear friend. Wish we could just sit down and share...love and blessings.

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

It's a pretty sad day when I am considered conservative.

Seriously!

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

Your not conservative your just a CON!!!

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

Maybe you're even now an AFF Ultra Con. :gotcha

Apparently I'm now an AFF Ultra Con... that's what someone told me the other day that I was.... Isn't that hilarious?

I used to be what Matt labeled a conservative moderate I think. Or was it a moderate conservative? :D

Gotta love the labels...... NOT!!

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

If I am an ultracon, Tina is a freaky-con!

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

And he reviles in the attention!!:ursofunny

Re: If the conservative Apostolics left the AFF
 

Love you folks...

Re: If the conservative Aposotlics left the AFF
 

When that happens no one will notice. :)

"You will never walk into a library and find a book entitled 'Great Moderates of American History'." - Rush Limbaugh

Re: If the conservative Apostolics left the AFF
 

I wonder if it's noticed now? Doesn't seem to be any conservative folks
here much anymore. The forum is way down it seems lately. But, I guess
facebook is better to everyone. More drama there than here for sure! LOL

Re: If the conservative Apostolics left the AFF
 

I hope we can maintain a mix of people here to maintain the diversity that exists in the body of Christ. (Of course, in my opinion, the Body of Christ includes trinity and oneness, Baptists, Roman Catholics, etc right alongside of Apostolic Charismatic Pentecostal Holiness folks like me).

Remember when we (or that may have been on one of the predecessors of this forum) had categories like:

ultra con
con
mid
lib
ultra lib
and
trib lib

trib was persecuted mercilessly here and some times lost his cool. He's alive and well on facebook and he's ministering for the Lord in Texas. He and his wife are facebook friends of mine.

We also had Caston Smith who was an ultra con. He left. He's alive and well on facebook and ministering in Alabama. He's also a facebook friend of mine.

Trib and Caston seem to fit on both ends of the spectrum when it comes to lib and con and whatever labels we use on each other. In my opinion, they are both good guys, sincerely serving the Lord according to their convictions and I feel good about calling them my brothers. I may not agree with them on some stuff but I do agree with them on some other stuff.

Let's stay with diversity.

Re: If the conservative Apostolics left the AFF
 

Dan Alicea gets things stirred up on facebook every so often.

I have dropped out of some stuff on facebook when I felt like some of the brethren went too far in insulting me and questioning my salvation. I don't need abuse like that.

Re: If the conservative Apostolics left the AFF
 

Which side (con or lib) tends to think their way is the only true way? Which gets more bent out of shape over opinions different from theirs? Which is more convinced that everyone who doesn't know the "Truth" (capital T) is lost? Which side is more intent on making everyone else obey what they understand to be the Law?

Just wondering. :D

Cons

Re: If the conservative Apostolics left the AFF
 

That would be the "conservatives", but, in part the more "liberal" ones as well. All Christians should have nonnegotiable aspects to their faith. Jesus Himself stated many absolute statements.

This reasonable post brought to you by the Resident Club of MODERATES.:happydance

Re: If the conservative Apostolics left the AFF
 

Moderates? Aren't they the ones who can't make up their minds about anything? :heeheehee