psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

A while back, in the middle of a sermon, I heard a minister use the verse Psalm 1:1 as his proof that children of faith need not depend upon psychiatrists for medical assistance. I was appalled that such a brazen assault could be launched from the pulpit. I thought it quite unfair to lump psychiatrists into a category of misfits "who have probably been divorced twice and molest their children." Its a good thing I didn't have my doctor friends with me that night!

Interestingly enough, I'm sure this minister would find it difficult to forbid interactions with legal counsel. The situation was later corrected, but I wonder if anybody else has had to deal with anything similar?

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

I've heard that a few times. No one that I've known who's said something like that ever hesitated to go to a Dr or psychologist when they needed one though. (but I've heard that there are some who do refuse-gist don't know any myself.) Never remember hearing ps 1:1 attached to it though.

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

I forgot to mention that he was discouraging folks from visiting on the basis that skilled professionals couldn't really help if he/she didn't share the same salvation experience.

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

That's not at all an uncommon teaching among some Pentecostal circles. Any mental health professionals are usually frowned upon.

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

It does make a bit of sence though, as a christian our council should be from the word of and not from a worldly source. Of course this does no count if the Doc. is a christian. Bottom line one should be carful of who they council with sometimes a so called christian does not help either.

Just my thoughts on the subject

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

I'm not completely trusting of worldly counselors, because counselors help people find direction and solutions, and if they don't have a Christian worldview, people will end up being led in a different direction than they should be.

I think it's best to seek out Christian counselors, but I'm not completely opposed to secular counseling. We should be careful whose counsel we hear.

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

I would also encourage entering into secular counseling with some level of caution as well. However, wouldn't you agree that the majority of "Christian" counseling has by and large been derived from the research and work of secular psychology?

Also, why stop at psychiatrists/psychologists? Just curious, do you apply the same level of caution when visiting physicians for healthcare or lawyers for legal advice?

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

I heard a preacher once make a statement like this,he said if a preacher has a nervous breakdown he is backslidden,because the bible that if one keeps their mind on the Lord,He will keep them in perfect peace how out in left field is this ?

This mentality also says if one is sick,or born infirm they have a demon.

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

I think Mark 5:25-34 are great verses to digest before people make assertions like that. Jesus was also a great example for us all in this instance. Imagine if the verse read: And he said unto her, "Daughter, ye have transgressed against the word of God (Psalms 1:1), and how is it that ye come to me with faith seeking to be healed of thy disease; go in peace, and back to thy worldy physicians!"

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

One should. Again the scripture in question tells us we are blessed if we walk not in the council of the ungodly. One should try and find christian health care and lawyers especialy in the area of psycology.
I would add though this scripture is not a commandment.

Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

Although it is good advice it is not a commandment, I see too many take things like this and make a doctrine out of it. Hence many doctrines that are not truely scritpure. If one wanted to there are more direcitives concerning the dietary laws and yet you don't hear preachers preaching agianst improper eating. But than they will quote about the temple of our bodies to preach against other things they want to call sin. I just don't understand how so many can be duped into following so called preachers that pick and choose what they want to preach against. Again just my thoughts. I think each child of God should search out their own salvation more and that preachers should quit trying to make perfect saints (by their own definition) and just preach the word.

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

I wonder if those mercy ships that deliver free medical service to Third Worlds can qualify as "Christian health care"? Can you imagine if those less fortunate souls living in substandard living conditions had this revelation?

I can see it now:

Room is quiet as an American team of doctors begin to administer ether to a young boy (near coast of Third World country) undergoing surgery to remove a large tumor attached to his arm. Suddenly, everyone is startled as boy pulls the mask away and groggily whispers, "Wait, Mr., Sir, I must first inquire about your faith..."

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

:thumbsup

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

Acctualy I think they can qualify!!! When some of us think Christian we think denominaiton manly our own or close to it. When I think of christian I think of those that take their teachings from the bible ie even Catholics. We Apostalics tend to not accept christians based on our plan of salvation and or acceptance to our holiness standards etc. Again in my own life I am still careful of all that I let influance my life. Whether they call themself christian or not. Many call themself christian who are not.

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

ROTFL :ursofunny on a more comical note but yes their are those that are like that.

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

Depends on what school of psychiatry they adhere to. A behaviorist really doesn't care what background or religion a patient comes from and they won't be pushing any kind of crazy ideas on them. A freudian oldschool shrink....well then there may be some caution needed.

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

Well, we would certainly hope that personal agendas aren't slipped into patient therapy. There were several saints attending secular therapy sessions where I used to attend church, and I'm sure they felt sinful or guilty according to the comments and teaching that came out of the pulpit. I will ask you the same question that MissBrattified declined to answer: Would you agree that the majority of "Christian" counseling has by and large been derived from the research and work of secular psychology?

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamasc...ley_emerg.html

Article (January 30,2010):

OREGON CITY -- Neil Jeffrey Beagley hated going to school, but the 16-year-old loved working on a 1973 Camaro he found on Ebay and working with his father on welding and construction projects.

As testimony wore on for two weeks, a picture of the boy at the heart of the Clackamas County faith-healing case now in jurors' hands slowly emerged. When Jeffrey and Marci Beagley took the stand, memories of their son made them both laugh and cry. They shared stories of an active, independent boy, and described how they used faith healing to treat him for what turned out to be a fatal condition.

The Beagleys, members of Oregon City's Followers of Christ church, were charged with criminally negligent homicide for failing to seek medical care. Neil died June 17, 2008, of complications from an undiagnosed and untreated urinary tract blockage.

Oregon law once permitted parents to avoid homicide charges if they relied solely on spiritual treatment and their child died. That changed in 1999, largely because of the Followers' long history of children dying from untreated medical conditions.

Despite the high-profile trial over his death, very little was known about Neil Beagley before his parents' testimony. He didn't attend public school past the third grade and associated mainly with family and church members.

After more than a week of testimony filled with medical jargon and statements from police interviews after his death, jurors finally saw pictures of Neil Thursday morning in a slideshow presented by defense attorney Steve Lindsey, who represents Marci Beagley.

On two courtroom television screens, a clean-cut 14-year-old Neil grinned as he struck a pose in a dark suit and striped tie. One video showed a wide-eyed toddler ripping open a present half his size. In the background, Marci Beagley asks if he's happy. "Yes," he says, before he puts on a tiny, yellow hard hat and revs his new toy chainsaw.

On the stand, the Beagleys offered stories of a son who once proclaimed that he didn't need to go to elementary school because he already knew everything. As a child, he drew up a loan contract for his sister, stipulating that she had to clean his room once a week. He picked up welding quickly and helped out with his father's toilet business, one that might have been passed on to him.

There were brief glimpses of a boy who was said to be the "crown prince" of his family, which included his parents; two older sisters, Raylene Worthington and Nicole Sayre; and a younger sister, Kathryn.

Most of his relatives resided in the Oregon City and Gladstone area, and he saw relatives often. The death of Raylene Worthington's daughter, Ava, in February of 2008, hit Neil Beagley hard, his parents testified. Worthington and her husband, Carl Brent Worthington, were tried in Ava's death on charges of criminal mistreatment and second-degree manslaughter.

Raylene Worthington was acquitted. Carl Worthington was convicted of criminal mistreatment and sentenced to two months in jail.

In the months following Ava's death, Neil was quiet, Jeffrey Beagley said. His mother said he had an upset stomach and wanted to spend more time with his father, with whom he had always had a close bond.

"Anything Jeff would do, Neil would tag along," Marci Beagley testified. "He was always happiest when he was with his dad."

It was a bond that prosecutors would later bring up in their own case against the parents. Neil's respect for his father, who never visited a medical doctor unless it was required for work and who once told detectives that seeking medical care showed a "lack of faith," likely influenced Neil's purported preference not visit a doctor in his last days, prosecutors said.

Alongside the picture of Neil's close-knit family that was portrayed on the stand, prosecutors saw another -- one of a family that only socialized with other church members in an insular community that numbered about 1,000.

Neil's older sisters went to public schools until high school, but Neil became homeschooled after the third grade. Though he attended classes through an elementary school program for homeschooled children at Oregon City's Eastham School, he didn't participate in extracurricular activities run by anyone outside the church.
Neil eventually became a relatively small – he stood at about five feet, five inches and weighed about 121 pounds – but headstrong teenager, who took up the hobbies that his father loved, like fixing up cars. He balanced his own checkbook and went out with friends when he got his driver's license.

His parents also described a boy who was close to his faith and had his own Bible. Marci Beagley could not think of a time when his faith had not been a part of his life, she testified.

As Neil lay in the bed before his death in June, he asked that family members come for a laying on of hands, his mother testified. They asked him if he wanted medical care, but she said he declined.

According to police interviews conducted just hours after Neil's death, the Beagleys took stock in what their independent, headstrong boy said to the moment he stopped breathing.

"I wanted to honor his wishes," Marci Beagley told a detective.

-- Nicole Dungca

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

Question: what about the leaders of the religion these people follow? They teach that God will heal, without the need for medical attention. Should they be considered as guilty as the parents that believe their teachings?

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

I do not take any counsel from any doctor, witch doctors, or any health professional that is not Acts 2:38 believing! If they do not have the anointing bottle when they talk to me then ... out, out, out!!

Furthermore, because I take that Scripture totally to heart....

I ONLY go to mechanics that talk in tongues while they are changing my oil and counseling me on my car! Cursing does not count!

And.... any plumber, electrician, or carpenter that works on my house and gives me any advice..... better have an ACTS 2:38 bumber sticker on their truck....

And... any financial advice better be coming from a tongue talker.... tongue talk or no talk at all is my motto!

Re: psychiatrists, doctors, and lawyers under fire
 

Among some Pentecostals, any medication, or treatment by a doctor, or visits to a hospital or clinic are strictly forbidden.

But
Jesus said that those who are sick need a physician (Matthew 9:12)
Proverbs 17:22 says that medicine does good.
Proverbs 18:9 says, "He who does not use his endeavors to heal himself is brother to him who commits suicide"

And, what about this?
1 Honour physicians for their services, for the Lord created them;
2 for their gift of healing comes from the Most High, and they are rewarded by the king.
3 The skill of physicians makes them distinguished, and in the presence of the great they are admired.
4 The Lord created medicines out of the earth, and the sensible will not despise them.
5 Was not water made sweet with a tree in order that its power might be known?
6 And he gave skill to human beings that he might be glorified in his marvellous works.
7 By them the physician heals and takes away pain;
8 the pharmacist makes a mixture from them. God’s works will never be finished; and from him health spreads over all the earth.
9 My child, when you are ill, do not delay, but pray to the Lord, and he will heal you.
10 Give up your faults and direct your hands rightly, and cleanse your heart from all sin.
11 Offer a sweet-smelling sacrifice, and a memorial portion of choice flour, and pour oil on your offering, as much as you can afford.
12 Then give the physician his place, for the Lord created him; do not let him leave you, for you need him.
13 There may come a time when recovery lies in the hands of physicians,
14 for they too pray to the Lord that he will grant them success in diagnosis and in healing, for the sake of preserving life.
15 He who will be defiant towards the physician sins against his Maker
Ecclesiasticus 38:1-15