Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

The election of David K. Bernard to the position of General Supintendant of the UPCI left some questions to be answered.

Here are a couple I have to get the ball rolling. Perhaps some AFFer will have some answers;

1. Does anybody know why Paul Mooney removed his name from consideration after receiving the most votes on the nominating ballot? Has he publicly stated why?

2. Does anybody know who will pastor DKB's church since the UPCI does not allow the GS to continue to pastor? Is his Asst. Pastor the heir apparent?

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Moody didn't remove his name till he went to go back behind the curtain. He said he felt checked in the holy spirit because he couldn't leave his call to pastor his current church.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Next question

Will DKB continue his leadership of UGST?

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Correction..... PM did not receive the most votes on the nominating ballot. KH received the most votes - just not the 2/3 required to remain as GS due to term limits... It is my understanding that KH was short only 40 to 50 votes.

As far as answering your question why he removed his name .... who knows, but it does seem odd. His name has come up for the past 10 years or more.... surely he knew that he would receive quite a few votes. He could have put the word out that he wasn't interested. JMHO

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Why the Holy Spirit wasn't checking PMs spirit while he was peacocking and sabre rattling to cons for the last year while trashing emergents and signaling to confidantes he would run is puzzling.

Lots of maybes, perhaps with PM?

Maybe his church is in a building project that is close to 20 million dollars in debt?

Maybe he has not been to secure his lineage (in law) as pastor as the church is not keen to the idea, and subsequently unable to secure a nest egg?

And, maybe it might be a reticent spouse or underlying health issues?

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Maybe the Lord wanted DB to be GS? Lots of praying and fasting going on before conference.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

I personally will put my money on the horse named Rodney Shaw!! :tiphat

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

If he really said this then I can't fault him for withdrawing his name.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Will Rex Johnson be the new Dist. Superintendent? :D

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Romans 8:28

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Trust God!

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

If RS and DKB are as close a team as I've heard, I wouldn't be surprised to see RS going to HQ with DKB.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Yeah...it had to be some sinister reason right? Couldn't possibly be that PM actually felt checked in his spirit and decided it was more important to Pastor.

It's sickening how easily people cast such things upon leadership these days. No wonder the churches have such problems. Disrespect runs amuck. Pastors always have to be evil and about the money right? They never hear from God, it's always just about the paycheck or "nest egg".

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

My uncle said that as Paul Mooney walked off the platform (or behind it), God spoke to him and told him to remove his name. I just have to believe if he said that's what happened, then it did. If that's what happened, then he doesn't owe an explanation to anyone; he just had to obey and I respect that.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Nitehawk, there is nothing sinister about planning ahead for retirement. If PM weighed this in his spontaneous decision making while being checked in the Spirit is his right and patriarchal resonsibility, especially since retirement planning for a minister can have many complexities and harsh realities. I would add that adding SINISTER motives to proposed hypothetical questions smacks of judgmentalism and MAY be sinister itself. :)

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Don't sugar it up now Kim. Re-read your first sentenc ein the original post. Anyone reading that get sthat your point was clear.

You imply very clearly that he wasn't hearing from God. You make it clear that your opinion is that he was acting on his own tryin to getthe position then when he came to the point of election decided the safe money of being a Pastor was abetter bet.

The only way you could have been more clear in what you meant was if you posted it on a neon sign. Don't turn and try to hide it because someone called you on it. Own up to it. You don't like PM's ideology so you took an opportunity to question his integrity and motives. Fine. But don't try to hide it and then spin it back on me for saying somethign about it.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

I respect it. Regardless of timing ... sometimes God waits until the last moment to test our obedience and faith in Him. It could be God wanted to see how PM would respond knowing he had the votes to be GS.

I'd be careful in suggesting that PM did this for lineage, money or because of a nest egg. I'm sure the GS is well taken care of, both during and after their service.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

I can understand why some question the actions. We have all experienced those that hide their own wishes by claiming God told them. Not saying PM did that at all.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Two points in which we can agree in your last post...1. I do not agree with PM’s ideology and would add approach in the last year towards those he disagrees with, this includes his report as head of the “Emerging Committee” and various documented preachings in the last few months against “emergents” in the fellowship. ..2. I did..give in..my opening declarative statements of post #1, ..my opinion about I what I have inferred from his well documented actions and words, from primary evidence (committee report and votes in his favor) , and anecdotal evidence from his peers that PM engaged in politicking until he “heard” from God. I respect what I perceive as your altruism and naïveté, that somehow, this election process is somehow a simply a spirit-led one in which leaders scale Mount Horeb for direction -- but the recent politicking within the fellowship, especially the blatant one’s like (WeDeclare) ,are open to analysis and discussion even if you would rather stifle varying views with attempting to claim moral ground and attach sinister motives to another's opinions with blanket absolutes about hypotheticals...The internal struggles that PM felt will continue to be a point of speculation up until the point he went behind the curtain and reneged and contradicted signals he had made to the conservative voting bloc, whether Nitehawk thinks it questions his integrity or not. And any financial realities are fair game too. ;)

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

It has also been my experience that some preachers like to put spiritual emphasis on their decision making by saying that God told them. I'm not saying that this is the case with PM, but I've seen it abused so many times that I'm skeptic whenever a preacher says it.

Why don't preachers own their decisions? Why can't they say, "After much prayer and consideration, I've decided......"?

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Or, MAYBE he's telling the truth?

Why does there have to be a conspiracy behind everything?

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

He DID really say that. And I see no good reason to call him a liar.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Was there any truth to the DB "twitter" that was referred to the day of election?

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

In spite of your fairly intelligent analysis of the whole situation, we shouldn't treat the interactions of these men with the same cynical perspective we do of say, the presidential elections and the behind-the-scenes antics that occur there. These are still men who love God, who, for all intents and purposes, do their best to serve Him and His kingdom, and don't really deserve to be painted as corrupt mobsters who lie, scheme, whisper & conspire behind backs just to get a position in the organization.

Furthermore, it is true that Bro. Mooney said the Lord checked him after the nomination, so if you continue with the conspiracy theories, you're just calling him a liar.

It's also possible that he may have had some misgivings (like the ones you listed), and was willing to take those risks ANYWAY, in order to be GS--but then the Lord checked him in his spirit. :coffee2

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I personally don't think God has anything to do with our political/religious organizations.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

This is a lot of supposition.
We don't know PM's motives.
We don't know his heart.

From what I understand, he had been "campaigning" for the position for some time, then when it looked like he had it, he turned it down. If he said the Holy Spirit "checked" him, let's just accept that and not try to figure it all out. How many others would react that way to the Holy Spirit when it looked like a political office like that was about to be handed to them?

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

I agree men of God should be given some benefit of the doubt while still clueless to where a conspiracy theory is laid out but rather speculative hypotheticals throughout this thread by myself and multiple posters. I would be very disappointed in Miss Brat if she is taking JR preachers assertion as bible truth not knowing if this is first or third hand info or if PM told her himself. I don't doubt if he did undergo such a check and or other mundane considerations were weighed. PM knows. This is all mere speculation.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Indeed.

I wasn't going to say it but since it has been said I will certainly stand up and agree with it.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

I'm not taking JRpreacher's assertion; I know it to be true from a different, and much closer source, and I was told minutes after the nomination--not days later. I was asked not to post it, so I didn't. However, it's obviously common knowledge now.

But...in the interest of not taking third hand assertions or theories, why not call PM yourself and ask him for his reasons? That's the best way to find out the truth, rather than posting nefarious and suggestive "theories" on the internet.

It's unfair to question someone's motives after they've already stated their reasons, and then try to take the high road and pretend you said nothing that could be taken the wrong way. Carefully parsing gossipy prattle into "theories & speculation" doesn't make it different at the core. :coffee2 The REASON we can move past the theories is BECAUSE PM said the Lord checked him. If you don't believe that coming from reliable sources, then ask him yourself. He's a nice guy; I'm sure he wouldn't mind answering you if you called and asked, "What was your reason for turning down the nomination?"

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

According to PM, the Lord "checked" him. Obviously he was looking in that direction (being the next GS), so it makes sense that this would be the only reason he would turn it down. I don't know if he has stated that publicly, but he has stated it privately.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

What twitter???

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

I'm not offended at your opinion Sam.....but I think you are dead wrong.

When any group comes together for the furtherance of the gospel of Christ, in faith believing, I think God is very much interested. And will act accordingly.

Politics? Of course they're there. Always have been and always will be. But some people are serious about getting the mind of Christ.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Once again, I don't doubt your internal sources or whether he was checked, miss brat, nor doubt he was checked. However, in any political public declarations carry more weight than my or your ruminations. Maybe that is why CC1 asked if a PUBLIC declaration was made. Nor is it unfair that if a leader has acted in a carnal, divisive, and politically agenda driven way with political aspirations in sight that there will be some Monday morning quarterbacking.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

I believe she came back later and apologized for posting "a rumor". It wasn't confirmed or denied.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

I think we often blame our organizations on coming together for the furtherance of the Gospel of Christ but, in the end, they only serve to divide the body.

Continual splits & schisms because our beliefs aren't exactly alike.

I think Sam is dead right.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Last I checked PM was a man, which makes him a sinner like the rest of us. David Koresh and Jim Jones heard from God too.

It is the ultimate trump card, you play that and no one dares question you. So either he wasn't listening very closely in all the time leading up to GC while he was making his case to be the next GS and he suddenly heard God load and clear on that day, or there were other factors involved and that is a neat way to tie up all the ends and say don't dare question my motives.

Tell everyone how gossipy they are all you want, I don't buy it. As Ray Stevens would say, if Jesus cam back tomorrow would he "...admit He's talked to all them preachers who say they been a talkin' to Him?"

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Just wondering. When did you become so cynical, Digging?

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

I don't see it as cynical. This is my assessment of what I see.

I'm not saying that the orgs are devilish or that people are evil. What I am stating is that an org is just that... an org. It is a creation of men and a division within the body (unless one org contains all that are in the Body of Christ).

So we shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking that an org is some God ordained body. There is but one God ordained body and since an org is always a subset of that body it is a division within that Body.

I can't see God busying or concerning himself with the inner workings of a division of what should be whole.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

I understand exactly what you are saying. God gets blamed for a lot of things at times. It's all too confusing when you stop and thing about it.

Everyone thinks they are right - not everyone can be right. Wilson felt led by God to pull out of UPCI and start their own org. UPCI feels they are doing God's will. wedeclare feel they are making a stand for what God wants --- which one is right?

In the end, men are doing what they feel is right. Is that wrong, not really, but don't say it's all what God wants.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Exactly.

Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
 

Because it happened in the United States of America ans Americans are known for their paranoi and love of conspiracy theories.