The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Ladies and gentlemen (and Timmy),

I introduce you to a big influence on me in the last few years... Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church, Seattle WA.

He teaches that the Song of Soloman isn't a allegory of Gods love for the church... and if it was it would put Christ in the odd position of touching a guy in a unmodest way.

He teaches alcohol is ok in moderation.

He teaches hell is super hot and ticks off liberals.

He teaches that ladies should focus on their families before jobs.

He has the 15th fastest growing church in the nation in one of the toughest and most liberal towns in America with 9000 showing up every week.

The SBC has tried to ban his books, the liberals say hes a homophobe, Focus on the Family banned him because he said Song of Soloman is gay when you make it a allegory instead of a romance story.

http://persiflagethis.blogspot.com/2...-driscoll.html

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Emerging church.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Actually he is one of its most vocal critics. But thanks or your imput :)

Driscoll, in sermons, has claimed to be "Emerging" or "Emerging Reformed" but not "Emergent."[14][15]

His description of his association with, and eventual distancing from the Emergent Church movement:[16]

In the mid-1990s I was part of what is now known as the Emerging Church and spent some time traveling the country to speak on the emerging church in the emerging culture on a team put together by Leadership Network called the Young Leader Network. But, I eventually had to distance myself from the Emergent stream of the network because friends like Brian McLaren and Doug Pagitt began pushing a theological agenda that greatly troubled me. Examples include referring to God as a chick, questioning God's sovereignty over and knowledge of the future, denial of the substitutionary atonement at the cross, a low view of Scripture, and denial of hell which is one hell of a mistake.

Driscoll, along with Leif Moi, Mike Gunn, and the Acts 29 network of independent churches, is part of the missional theology community that adheres to classical Calvinist, or Reformed, theology and views their mission as communicating this school of theology to "modern" people (Emerging Reformed).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Dr...hurch_Movement

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Driscoll first picked up his reputation when thousands met him in Donald Miller's Blue Like Jazz as Mark the Cussing Pastor

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/...ber/30.44.html

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Donald Miller is one of his biggest critics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Miller_(author)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Like_Jazz

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

I never thought Song of Solomon was anything but a love story!

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Bring in the booze.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Apo, your signature line reminds me of something I've had on my refrigerator for over 15 years:

It is illogical to reason thus, "I am richer than you, therefore I am superior to you," "I am more eloquent than you, therefore I am superior to you." It is more logical to reason, "I am richer than you, therefore my property is superior to yours," "I am more eloquent than you, therefore my speech is superior to yours." You are something more than property or speech.

Epictetus, Discourses

and Luke 12:23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

:thumbsup:heart

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com...church-part-i/

Pentecostals are a Spirit led movement. The emergents are a culture driven movement.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

"(and Timmy)"

:spit

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Heh, just messing with you :)

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Nope, he is missional, big difference. He dislikes Bell, MacLaren and other so called Bible Liberals.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

After reading hte Christianity Today article...this guy sounds pretty awesome to me.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Song of Solomon according a Hebrew Scholar that I read in Grad School/Seminary is God's sex manual written in allergory.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

*sigh*


My dog just killed one of my chickens.

He must be an emerging dog.

All things evil = emerging church.

I know that he uses the term... but he doesn't define it for everyone.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

That's how I've always understood it too! God is cool!

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Me, either! I've been :blush listening to preachers try to compare it to Christ and the church over the years.

The most embarrassing sermon I EVER heard was about "Making Love to Jesus", (I don't know if that was the actual title) and I will not name the minister, but it was at a conference, and he used Song of Solomon as one of his references. He compared human anatomy and sex acts to our relationship with God. It was WAYYYY off base.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

If only the Catholics had left it out of the canon then everyone who read it would be a wacko nut case.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

God created sex. He should know how it is done best.

That's out of the box thinking. LOL.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

I don't know what that person preached but all things declare the glory of God... including procreation.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

I REALLY like Mark Driscoll. I don't understand how someone so clear headed could repeatedly refer to the "trinitarian God of the Bible" (whatever THAT means), but I'm willing to let that go. LOL!!! He has a lot of great clips on YT, and excellent advice for couples on family, marriage, sex, etc. He has VERY conservative family values.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Sure. So, D4T, please compare french kissing your wife to french kissing God. LOL!!! That was one of MANY points made in the sermon.

I agree that a husband and wife's union and producing of children declares the glory and majesty of God. However, the marital relationship is not the same across the board as our relationship with God. We don't have sexual feelings toward God.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Yep... way off base.

I stand corrected. LOL

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Yep, sorry, I had to go there to illustrate the idiocy. LOL!!!!! :D

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

I may have been at that same conference. Wacky stuff. I wish I had walked out.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Some idiocy is unexpected... Good grief. :)

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

I can't remember exactly what year it was, but it had to be more than 20 years ago. It wasn't a UPCI conference.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

I'm a big-time "seeker" type, and I was before I ever heard the term or heard of Willow Creek. I don't care for Driscoll's style at all. If it works for him, fine, but I don't see him as "emergent" at all (and I hate that term). Sure, he's got the jeans and the rock-n-roll, but to me he's just anger packaged in modern clothes. The way he yells at people reminds me of my years at UPC youth camps.

So to me, same song, second verse.

But he's built quite a thing in a tough town so kudos for him. And I saw him recently on "Hour of Power" and he was very good.

Speaking of "Hour of Power", when I first heard of that I thought it would be a pentecostal blowout TV show. Then they broke out the pipe organ and the liturgical robes. Caught me off-guard.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

What channel do you watch "Hour of Power" on? LOL!!

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Fox 40!!! :ursofunny

NO, not on that "other" channel!!

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Years ago, "making love" was not a reference to sexual intimacy.

If you've ever seen any movie classics from the 40's and 50's, it just meant saying sweet nothings in someone's ear.

But, I do remember my sister visiting church with me. She was praying at the altar and an elderly woman was praying with her. She said, "Make love to him!" She totally stopped praying. LOL!

Not a good term to use today, but the older generation meant nothing nefarious by it.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

I knew a pastor who, all the time, would say, "Let's just make love to the Lord" and everyone would turn red.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

What was his age?

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Yep, you nailed it!!!

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

You see? He meant nothing by it. He'd probably be embarrassed if someone explained to him that terminology has changed.

Remember when "queer" just meant "strange". Now you can't say, "That's queer."

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

And "gay" meant happy.....

Once in a while someone in church -always a seasoned citizen, will refer to my wife as my "mate". THAT makes me uncomfortable for some reason. It almost sounds like gutter talk to me. Sex as a form of function, aka procreation, versus something you are actually allowed to enjoy.
(Granted, I have no problem with the Australian form of the word.)

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

Yea, some words just are not very kosher today.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

There are two parts to that. Language has been hi jacked by MTV and meanings have greatly increased with sexual innuendo. We have another ordeal called Politically correct speech. Many ordinary expressions are now taboo.

Re: The most controversial pastor in North America
 

One man's emergent is another man's revolutionary. lol