Anyone know about a new group?
 

Does anyones know about a new holiness group of young men, counselled by N Wlsn, who are supposed to meet in Baton Rouge in January or February?

Supposedly they are going to meed to counter the emergent doctrine.

A bunch of them are between the ages of 25 and 45.

Any one know of this?

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

What is the emergent doctrine?

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

Yeah, both the guys at the meeting will appear with white shirts and neckties.

I'm just really craving an opportunity to meet one of these guys and do the "Your Shirt's On Fire" trick. heh.

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

Are they armed with suicide vests?

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

I have never understood what emergent doctrine consists of...please explain in simple words,,,,

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

I would try and explain it but it is still busy emerging.

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

Squire Sancho Panza (played by MY) : My lord, can the WWPF fund our internet video broadcasting studio Empire?

Don Quixote (played by NW) : My leige, onward to Baton Rouge! I will slay the emergent windmill with its shirt tail untucked!

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

Its actually a pretty big group of folks with a wide diversity of views from the far far far far far left to the middle of the road folks.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerging_church

The emerging church (sometimes referred to as the emergent movement) is a Christian movement of the late 20th and early 21st century that crosses a number of theological boundaries: participants can be described as evangelical, post-evangelical, liberal, post-liberal, charismatic, neocharismatic and post-charismatic. Participants seek to live their faith in what they believe to be a "postmodern" society. Proponents of this movement call it a "conversation" to emphasize its developing and decentralized nature, its vast range of standpoints and its commitment to dialogue. What those involved in the conversation mostly agree on is their disillusionment with the organized and institutional church and their support for the deconstruction of modern Christian worship, modern evangelism, and the nature of modern Christian community.

--- same article

The emerging church favors the use of simple story and narrative. Members of the movement often place a high value on good works or social activism, sometimes including missional living or new monasticism.[citation needed] While some Evangelicals may emphasize eternal salvation, many in the emerging church emphasize the here and now.[citation needed]
Some have noted a difference between the terms "emerging" and "Emergent." Whilst emerging is a wider, informal, church-based, global movement, Emergent refers to an official organization, the Emergent Village, associated with Brian McLaren, and has also been called the "Emergent stream."[1]
Key themes of the emerging church are couched in the language of reform, Praxis-oriented lifestyles, Post-evangelical thought, and incorporation or acknowledgment of political and Postmodern elements.[2] Many of the movement's participants use terminology that originates from postmodern literary theory, social network theory, narrative theology, and other related fields.[citation needed]
Emerging churches can be found throughout the globe, predominantly in North America, Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and Africa. Some attend local independent churches or house churches[3][4] labelled "emerging" while others worship in traditional Christian denominations

--- from same article

Many of those within the emerging church movement who do not closely identify with "emergent village" tend to avoid that organization's interest in radical theological reformulation and focus more on new ways of "doing church" and expressing their spirituality. Mark Driscoll, an early leader associated with the emerging church conversation, now distances himself from the "emergent thread."[12] Some observers consider the "emergent stream" to be one major part within the larger emerging church movement. This may be attributed to the stronger voice of the 'emergent' stream found in the US which contrasts the more subtle and diverse development of the movement in the UK, Australia and New Zealand over a longer period of time. As a result of the above factors, the use of correct vocabulary to describe a given participant in this movement can occasionally be awkward, confusing, or controversial. Key voices in the movement have been identified with Emergent Village, thus the rise of the nomenclature "emergent" to describe participants in the movement. Some people affiliated with the relational network called "Emergent Village" do not identify with the label "emergent".

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

thank you I will read some more about it...

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

There is no emergent doctrine.

There is a movement which sufferers continuous and relentless over generalizations which cast a negative light on every one who does anything that even looks "emergent" (whatever that means).

These battles against the emerging church and emergent doctrine are blind swings in the dark by people who battle a thing which they know not what it is.

Witch hunts and the inquisition come to mind when I see these mindsets at work.

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

But how does this conservative group of young preachers define emerging is what I meant to ask?

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

"We have nothing to fear but fear itself!"

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

And imaginary doctrines to chase after. :)

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

You just had to go and quote me right before I deleted that!!!!

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

It was more a statement about these groups. It's knee-jerk reactions to anything that they view as a threat... even when there's no consistent interpretation of what constitutes "emergent." What threat could possibly be posed to even the most ultra conservative groups by a man preaching in jeans and an untucked shirt? It's that "fear of outsiders" and the bold stance against anything that looks different than me that drives a lot of this. And unfortunately, in our little subculture, it's a very prominent driver.

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

You gotta jump fast around here. :)

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

Anyone that doesn't believe as they do?

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

That's what I was wondering. Are they using a label that is out there (and is used in a negative way by some) and place it on those that would not be considered "emerging" by those that invented the name?

I think it is more limited to those who once believed like they do but emerged out of their group and now believe differently on some things or maybe all things. Am I right?

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

I believe you are correct.

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

It all just goes to prove once again.... Bandwagons are FUN!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

I know this definition isn't the sum total, but when I've heard 'emergent' in a critical tone of voice, it has referred to the churches who are going more casual. Among some of the characteristics would be - no suits, no pulpit, maybe the service is held in a coffee shop. People sit around and have Bible studies, instead of a traditional church service.

Basically anything non-traditional.

The word 'relevant' is usually thrown in there in a derisive tone of voice, too.

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

I belive that what they, (the new group), are advocating is holding to the old paths, ie doctrine, salvation, and holiness.

They are supposed to meet in Spells church in La Rouge! (baton rouge)

Sounds to me like another group trying to make a splash!

Will keep informed!

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

Interesting. NW uses cutting edge technology in his church, has a daily video program, and probably has been seen with his shirt untucked.

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

Another of their big issues with the emergent church is meeting in homes.

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

Why don't they just sign WeDeclare?

or meet in Detroit?

Is everyone welcome?

Are they going to examine the old paths to make sure the old paths are the right paths? Or are they going to hold on to traditions blindly?

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

They may have to redraw some lines. :spit

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

My point is there must be a deeper, more ominous threat than some of these innocuous activities which have been cited. These men must be considering there to be a spiritual danger much more relevant to the undermining of the Gospel than untucked shirts, casual dress and meeting in homes.

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

Is this what is being dubbed Hope Corps? Are you mixing up the "emergent" branding with the mission of Hope Corps? I've heard a little about this.

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

To them it's those who likely don't believe fully 3-step (and have fellowship otherwise), want to do away with their decades-old tradition of slicking up on Sunday nights (and that still have Sunday night services), believe dogmatically in uncut hair, no make-up, no jewelry (except the fancy watches they exchange) and no Hollywood (tv or movies).

They desire to etch that into stone. Create a movement -err division -- out of it.

More power to them. What emergents are they "fighting" in the WPF though?

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

:thumbsup

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

They have their own news organ too: http://www.apostolicnews.org/wpf-presents-hope-corps

Seems this Hope Corps idea helps them sell their Bible College too.

http://www.worldwidepf.com/go/defaul...ns/hope-corps/

Maybe this Baton Rouge meeting is different though. Tim Spell? He's fellowshipping with WPF? He's always been independent and I thought the farthest from WPF ideology.

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

IMO getting a definitive answer to your question may be difficult. The problem lies in the many varied definitions of the "emergent church" doctrines/ideologies.

Here are some markers (compiled from various articles on the subject none of which were "Apostolic" in origin) that help to identify the "emergent church."

1. Other religions and religious practices are beginning to be accepted in the name of unity.

2. Doctrine is deemed to be divisive.

3. Bible study is replaced by the study of someone's book

4. The topics of heaven and hell, sin, repentance, salvation, and holiness are downplayed so no one leaves offended

5. Impersonal forms of prayer and mysticism is being encouraged rather than praying in the name of Jesus.

6. That alternative lifestyles such as homosexuality and same sex marriages are no longer believed to be sinful.

The term "emergent church" however, IMO is really defined by those within a certain doctrinal camp, and in reality EVERY denomination defines "emergent" from their own doctrinal perspective. To some "emerging" means a church that is casual in dress and singing modern "worship" songs. To others it is more of a doctrinal issue. I find myself in the latter.

IMHO It doesn't matter whether the preacher is preaching in a pair of jeans with a nice shirt and no tie or if he is in a three piece suit. What matters is that truth is being preached. I really don't care what kind of bow you want to put on the box but we MUST NEVER change the content of the box. The gospel of Jesus Christ which brings salvation, and sound doctrine which includes holiness and separation from the world are not optional.

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

BishopH-Amen.
But in the same breath as the Gospel, which is equivalent to salvation, you have put "holiness and separation," which pertains to Christian ethics and living, in the same category. And I assume your "holiness and separation" is code language for holding to unbiblical commandments as gospel?

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

No "code language" here! I forgot an "and" which I have added, however, holiness is a component of salvation and one cannot have salvation without holiness as the writer of Hebrews admonishes us;"Work at living in peace with everyone, and work at living a holy life, for those who are not holy will not see the Lord." Hebrews 12:14(NLT) And holiness is a progressive work in our lives "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." 2 Corinthians 7:1

While I understand the need for growth and maturity, IMHO if a "Christian" does not exemplify "Christian" ethics and living then he/she is not a true Christian. Separation from the world in conduct, dress, attitude, and manner of life is "biblical" in every sense of the word.

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

I'm amazed in all of Paul's writings, you believe Christian living is part of salvation, and not byproduct of salvation and maturity. I have news for you, though I put on holiness, and strive, even, to be perfect, in my own self, I am unholy and wretched. I fall short. The exhortation in Hebrews 12:14 most assuredly is not a teaching on how to be saved, but rather the responsibility of one who is saved.

Yes, it is entirely progressive. What's interesting is when people put their own dogmas under what is defined as "holiness" and then insert these dogmas into scriptures where the word "holy" or "holiness" appear.

Those who don't pursue holiness, those who are "unholy", meaning, living wicked lives, will not see the Lord. The context of the Chapter is about listening to the Lord, which is what Holiness is all about: having an ear toward heaven, letting it renew our minds, thoughts and consequently our behaviors (actions).

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

These guys that use the word Emergent have no clue what the word refers to. To the it means the same as Charismatic...to them anyone that does not agree with them on everything is emergent

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

Yes, I think 'emergent' is the new 'charismatic'.

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

Opposite of Charismatic, but same flavor: backslidden. Charismatics throw away Holiness, to them, Emergents, throw away Holiness AND the essentiality of the Holy Ghost. Funny, the terms becomes their own loaded word, meaning nothing close to its original intent- and frankly, completely independent of Apostolics.

Re: Anyone know about a new group?
 

My good brother Jeffrey, I hear from you posts the same mantra that I hear from so many who have become imprisoned by their liberty. So often in their attempt to point out the hardness and bitterness of their legalistic" brethren they fall into the same rhetoric just from the other end of the spectrum. Let me address some of your points.

If you would have read what I stated without your shaded glasses, you would have seen that I clearly separated the Gospel/salvation from sound doctrine which "includes holiness and separation from the world." One would likely not endure sound doctrine if he was not saved. The "news" you have for me is really old news with a touch of error! True holiness is not something we can put on; it is without question the product of salvation and relationship with God. The concept of “perfecting” holiness does not suggest that we can improve or increase our holiness, but rather, that we can crucify our flesh so that his holiness may reign in and emanate from our lives. Can a person be saved and not be/become holy?

Secondly, your statement concerning peoples definition of holiness, and the fact that people "insert these dogmas" into scriptures is due to a total misunderstanding/misrepresentation of holiness vs. sanctification. Separation from the world is possible without being holy; however one cannot be holy without being separated from the world. The term “holiness” has been errantly used to describe outward “standards.” However, holiness is a heart/soul work which will become evident in manner of life, Christian character, and in separation from the world in thought, attitude, and actions including how we dress/adorn ourselves.

It is IMHO important to remember that God has allowed the church to establish lines of separation from the world from its earliest days. (I.e. Acts 15) Thus I believe the church today has the liberty to establish those same things based on the culture, and influence of society.