Christmas/Holidays
 

What's the big deal about Christmas?

I take my wife to eat on valentine's day, it's not because I believe cupid shot her with an arrow.

I eat Turkey on Thanksgiving, it has nothing to do with pilgrims and Indians.

I shoot fireworks off at 4th of July, I don't worship the emperor/president.

I cook a burger on Memorial Day, I don't agree with killing people.

I cook another one on Labor Day, doesn't mean I'm greddy for gain.

I celebrate Easter,but I don't commit adultery because of the fertility God.

So many things I find to simply be cultural, not religious. To me there are religious aspects to Christmas and Easter. I wouldn't say Christmas is a religious holiday. It is a secular holiday, however one which prominently features Jesus Christ. Easter is the closest thing we have to a religious holiday (unless you want to call the day of Pentecost a religious holiday :D).

I think tis and so much more simply fits into the Romans 14 argument for Christian liberty. What say ye?

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We certainly do NOT worship trees in this house. :)

(But we do decorate one and put it in the front window with lights twinkling! :D)

I just feel that I am in charge of how a day--any day--is focused. If I happen to be in New Orleans during Mardi Gras--I will not be participating, but I MIGHT have a slice of King Cake. ;)

Every day in this house honors God, first and foremost, and any holiday we celebrate is centered around Him in some way--even birthdays. :thumbsup

If some people feel they have to avoid certain celebrations, that is them, and that is their stumbling block. I have no desire to foist Christmas upon them. However, they shouldn't look around at other Christians who celebrate and judge them as pagans and heathens, especially when many people focus on charity and family more than ever at this time of year--both very good things.

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Buncha lousy Pagans!!!!!!!


We just finished putting up our Pagan Tree...and it looks great...

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I agree

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1 Hear the word that the Lord speaks to you, O house of Israel.
2 Thus says the Lord:
Do not learn the way of the nations,
or be dismayed at the signs of the heavens;
for the nations are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the peoples are false:
a tree from the forest is cut down,
and worked with an axe by the hands of an artisan;
4 people deck it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so that it cannot move.
5 Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field,
and they cannot speak;
they have to be carried,
for they cannot walk.
Do not be afraid of them,
for they cannot do evil,
nor is it in them to do good.
6 There is none like you, O Lord;
you are great, and your name is great in might.
7 Who would not fear you, O King of the nations?
For that is your due;
among all the wise ones of the nations
and in all their kingdoms
there is no one like you.
8 They are both stupid and foolish;
the instruction given by idols
is no better than wood!
9 Beaten silver is brought from Tarshish,
and gold from Uphaz.
They are the work of the artisan and of the hands of the goldsmith;
their clothing is blue and purple;
they are all the product of skilled workers.
10 But the Lord is the true God;
he is the living God and the everlasting King.
At his wrath the earth quakes,
and the nations cannot endure his indignation.
Jeremiah 10:1-10

10 But miserable, with their hopes set on dead things, are those
who give the name ‘gods’ to the works of human hands,
gold and silver fashioned with skill,
and likenesses of animals,
or a useless stone, the work of an ancient hand.
11 A skilled woodcutter may saw down a tree easy to handle
and skilfully strip off all its bark,
and then with pleasing workmanship
make a useful vessel that serves life’s needs,
12 and burn the cast-off pieces of his work
to prepare his food, and eat his fill.
13 But a cast-off piece from among them, useful for nothing,
a stick crooked and full of knots,
he takes and carves with care in his leisure,
and shapes it with skill gained in idleness;*
he forms it in the likeness of a human being,
14 or makes it like some worthless animal,
giving it a coat of red paint and colouring its surface red
and covering every blemish in it with paint;
15 then he makes a suitable niche for it,
and sets it in the wall, and fastens it there with iron.
16 He takes thought for it, so that it may not fall,
because he knows that it cannot help itself,
for it is only an image and has need of help.
17 When he prays about possessions and his marriage and children,
he is not ashamed to address a lifeless thing.
18 For health he appeals to a thing that is weak;
for life he prays to a thing that is dead;
for aid he entreats a thing that is utterly inexperienced;
for a prosperous journey, a thing that cannot take a step;
19 for money-making and work and success with his hands
he asks strength of a thing whose hands have no strength.
Wisdom 13:10-19

3 Our God is in the heavens;
he does whatever he pleases.
4 Their idols are silver and gold,
the work of human hands.
5 They have mouths, but do not speak;
eyes, but do not see.
6 They have ears, but do not hear;
noses, but do not smell.
7 They have hands, but do not feel;
feet, but do not walk;
they make no sound in their throats.
8 Those who make them are like them;
so are all who trust in them.
9 O Israel, trust in the Lord!
He is their help and their shield.
Psalm 115:3-9

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What's the big deal about Christmas?
Many in the world celebrate Christmas, however, I do not. To me it is just another day, there is no big deal in my household. I believe what I believe about Christmas (which is that it is a pagan celebration); regardless of others trying to assign it as Christ's birth. They celebrate it and I don't; therefore, it is what it is; life goes on for everyone. Doesn't make me or them any better than the other. (However, some feel it does...ridiculous).

I take my wife to eat on valentine's day, it's not because I believe cupid shot her with an arrow.

I eat Turkey on Thanksgiving, it has nothing to do with pilgrims and Indians.
I love ham, not really a turkey gal; just made myself some soup with my ham bone...(I know that was wayyyy off topic).

I shoot fireworks off at 4th of July, I don't worship the emperor/president.
Not quite sure where the emperor/president came into play on this one. This holiday is to celebrate our freedom in the United States.

I cook a burger on Memorial Day, I don't agree with killing people.
Memorial Day is about remember those who have fought and fallen in wars. It is not about the killing of people. I would hope that no Christian or anyone else for that matter doesn't agree with killing people. However, war is not wrong and death comes with war. War is not un-biblical.

I cook another one on Labor Day, doesn't mean I'm greddy for gain.
Hmm..interesting now that I think of it I never do anything for Labor Day.

I celebrate Easter,but I don't commit adultery because of the fertility God.
I do nothing for Easter and put that in the same category as Christmas.

So many things I find to simply be cultural, not religious. To me there are religious aspects to Christmas and Easter. I wouldn't say Christmas is a religious holiday. It is a secular holiday, however one which prominently features Jesus Christ. Easter is the closest thing we have to a religious holiday (unless you want to call the day of Pentecost a religious holiday :D). There are many things that are celebrated that are cultural, however, for many holidays that are celebrated they are both cultural and religious. Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, Valentines, and probably other holidays that I'm unaware of.

I think tis and so much more simply fits into the Romans 14 argument for Christian liberty. What say ye?

Verse 10 sums up my feelings "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ". So there you go. People shouldn't get all riled up every December, because this disagreement will continue until the good Lord takes us out of this world. I know plenty of people the celebrate holidays that I am adamantly opposed to, but they know that and they respect that; just as I respect them. Nothing worth dis-fellowshipping over, as some people take it to the extreme and become ugly spirited over this sort of thing. Bottom line in all things seek the face of God and he will direct you.

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Some of what I followed with are from ridiculous arguments I've heard against celebrating any holidays. For example, the emperor/president/empire argument is used by JW's as a reason why no true Christian should celebrate 4th of July.:blah

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I think Christmas is mostly a family holiday anymore. It is really one day a year that my family all gets together and spends time with each other. That is why it is a great holiday.

I get why some people lose their minds and think it is horrible. Yeah...over 20 centuries ago the holiday was all about paganism. This is almost 2010 though. At some point people should realize that although it may have been meant for paganm worship 2000+ years ago...that is no longer the case. Get over it.

We have 3 trees up, lights everywhere, stockings over the fireplace, etc. Live it up. It's the happiest time of the year!

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It is the mixture.

To knowingly hold a celebration of the true God on a date set aside for a fertility goddess is to mix the true worship of God with paganism. God has always hated the mixture.

He said he would rather we be hot or cold but because we are lukewarm he will spew us out of his mouth.

When did Christ die? Not on Easter (which is a derivative of Ishtar... we even call the name of the pagan goddess in the name of (or in place of) the true God). On Passover. But Christianity continues to perpetuate a pagan date, name & rituals.

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Actually there are more suicides this time of year than any other.

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Many people focus on the part about the tree but i do not. I focus on the part above. The customs of Christmas are exactly what these verses were talking about. Maybe not exactly as in this verse was talking about this particular festival... but exactly... as in this was, indeed, the way of the heathen nations and was something God never wanted his people to learn.

We pride ourselves on so many things the catholics took from paganism that we have gotten rid of yet we still have our pet pagan worships that we love, adore and maintain.

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Oh come on! Take a pill and look around for a moment.

If you want to blast the commercialization of the holiday, Ill stand beside you and scream too. But the "pagan" stuff is an old dead useless horse. It is meaningless. Yeah I bet God is just SOOOO offended that there are "pagan" aspects invovled in Christmas considering the ONLY people aware of such "paganism" are scrooges and cranky "scholars".

NO ONE knows or cares about the sun god anymore. No one cares about any sort of pagan roots to having a tree. There is NOTHING pagan about getting famly together to eat a meal and give gifts. No one knows anything about any pagan roots to lights.

It's pretty hard for something to be pagan worship when no one who has those things is aware of anything remotely pagan about them. The tree isn't pagan when no one thinks of it as anything but a tree. The lights aren't pagan when no one thinks of them as anything but pretty lights. The day itself isn't about sun god worship when no one even believes there is a sun god.

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According to the word of God... God does. And He is not a no one in my books.

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If God is so angry about CHristmas because it has pagan roots no one knows about, then would God also be angry and condemn men who partake of meat offered to idols when they didn't knwo it was meant for idols?

Yet God inspired Paul to write just the opposite. Give thanks and eat giving no mind for what it was intended for. It may have been meant for idols, but that didn't matter.

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I'm not going to continue in this volley this year.

Scripture and factual history vs a retort based upon personal opinion equals a continuous loop with no progress.

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I have seen both sides and been on both sides of this argument. I think its a good time
for the church to have services and use every opportunity to win someone to Jesus.
I am not an advocate of Christmas nor a dictator of choice. We don't do it in our household. My husband feels the same about it as does Brother D4T. However we
don't go out and condemn others. People have to come to their own convictions and
conclusions.

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If it's a conviction then I say fine. Good for you. You better be true to what God deals with you about.

But don't try to spin scripture to support some anti-Christmas humbuggery. It's a crock. If God didn't tell Paul to condemn those who ate meat intended for idols, then there is no foundation for condemning people over celebrating a holiday that was meant for idols over 2 millennia ago.

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The Jehovah Witness are a big turnoff to me. So, I will celebrate Christmas in its entirety - trappings and wrappings! :thumbsup

It's a wonderful time of year to celebrate, decorate, visit with family members and fellowship in general. It's a wonderful time. They can't put out enough Santa Clause figures to make people forget - Jesus is the Reason for the Season. :thumbsup

I don't think there is anything wrong with setting aside a particular time of year to, specifically, celebrate the day Jesus was born in a manager. That doesn't mean, as Christians, we don't celebrate that all year long. It's the same as setting aside that one day - your special day - your birthday. No difference, IMO.

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Okay... one more post... LOL...

The analogy you give between eating meat offered to idols and practicing Christmas is flawed.

In the situation Paul was dealing with there was pagan ritual... and then meat offered in that pagan ritual.

Paul never said it was okay to take part in the pagan ritual. He said it was okay to eat the meat that was sold as an aftermath of the pagan ritual.

What Paul was saying would be tantamount to saying that it was okay to buy Christmas candy etc.

Wouldn't you agree that Paul was not stating that they could take part in the ritual itself but only stating that they could eat the food product that was associated with the ritual?

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Yes but then Nitehawk if someone does have a conviction over it then those
who do so don't have to condemn them for obeying their conviction and what
they feel the Word teaches. That reasoning goes both ways. We are not
to let our liberty be a stumbling block.

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With reasoning like that... who can argue?

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LOL! Wut? Are you losing steam?! I know you have something to say! LOL!

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All we are doing in this analogy is eating the meat. We aren't taking part in any rituals. The trees, the lights, the gifts etc are all just the meat. The ritual would be the actual worship of some idol...which no one is doing.

Assuming thatthe ritual included dancing, screaming, cutting oneself, fornicating or whatever else as an act of worship to a false god, none of that is being done today even in analogous form. There is no act of worship going forth in hanging lights and setting a tree. They are just decorations. No worship. No mention of a false god. No callingon the name of some babylonian deity. Just trees and lights and feeling really happy about spending tim ewith family and friends.

It's just the meat. And yeah...it used to be menat for idols, but not anymore.

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I'm sure he does have something to say. :D He's probably just decided it's pretty pointless to try and argue with a woman on this forum because we all turn threads into shoe & purse threads... or in this case would start posting Christmas decoration photos. (Speaking of which, where is the thread for this year??? I haven't seen one... and I was really hoping for some new ideas!)

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LOL!

I haven't really seen all that much that is new this year. I have all the Christmas magazines that are out and have a few new Christmas books, i.e., Southern Living, etc. I've looked around the net a bit and don't see all that much out there this year.

Martha Stewart generally has some pretty things, but her magazine this year is too much crafty stuff. Just not into that.

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Everyone could just post photos of the decor they are using.... I remember some doing that last year. I really enjoyed seeing those photos.

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I haven't unpacked my Christmas stuff yet and I don't think I'll have time to get to it this week either. I am way behind!

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My decorations are up!

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We have the tree up, but that's it. Everything else is still in the attic.The tree wouldn't even be up if it had been left up to me. The kids put it up before we went to youth convention. I've just not gotten into the mood to decorate yet. I need a thread to inspire me I guess. LOL

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We need photos!!!!! :D

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I'll try to get that done. I'm going to my daughter's this weekend (in St. Louis) to put her tree up, shop and bake Christmas cookies!

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You need to read "Pagan Christianity". Hardly anything you do in church is gonna survive.

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My daughter and I trade off having Christmas every year. Sooo, this year she is not in the mood for a tree and asks, "Are you putting up a tree this year?" "Yes." "Okay, we are having Christmas at your house this year!" LOL!

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Not in this thread hopefully...

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No, I've made a separte thread for the pictures.

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I asked someone to prove that last year. lol

I looked up a bunch of statistics and they *all* indicated that suicides are lower this time of the year than at other times.

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Pagans do. :D

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Interesting article,

http://www.touchstonemag.com/archive...id=16-10-012-v

The "Christmas tree" can be used to teach wonderful biblical lessons.

In addition St. Nicholas (Santa Claus) was a Modalist. Yep, Santa Claus was a Oneness Pentecostal.

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Yep... and can often be a little miffed that christians keep hijacking their festivals. :)