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- - till (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=27902)

in eph.4:11-says he gave us apostles,prophets ,evang,pastors and teachers

for the perfecting of the saints edifying of the body of christ TILL WE ALL COME IN UNITY OF THE FAITH.

so my statement is there it seems to implying that there is a time, when there will no longer be these ministries once the church comes into unity ..the word here TILL sets a time frame of when that will happen .

now even as i see that,, i wonder how we ever gonna get the body together.:smack seems like alot of things seperate us .

fortunatly our church pulls together good ,,,but bringing the whole body together now thats gonna be a chore lol!

still the word till birngs us to the idea of a set time frame that will be met.

what say ye?

In my opinion that means that as long as there is a church we will be growing and developing until the rapture so Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers will always be part of that developing church.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 849581)

In my opinion that means that as long as there is a church we will be growing and developing until the rapture so Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers will always be part of that developing church.

:thumbsup

but thats not what it says... it plainly says he gave us those callings TILL.. however i dont buy into the rapture theory anyhow .

you might wanna read the parable of the tares again! TILL you understand it ..

Quote:

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959 (Post 849644)

OK, the "rapture" is not believed in by everyone here. Maybe that was a poor illustration.

Could not "till" mean as long as there is a church it will be developing and growing (being perfected)?

i guess maybe some other translations are needed here to help shed more light on this i dont have time this morn but will do some later..however sam if it turned out as you say that woudl be fine with me ,just this scripture has intriged me for a bit!

Quote:

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959 (Post 849548)

I am guessing we haven't got there yet since AFF isn't exactly an amen corner...

Then again maybe some of us have because I have run into folks on this and other forums that don't believe they need a pastor :D

I believe this scripture applies:

1Cr 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. Could "then" equal "till"?

The five fold ministry is needed in the "glass darkly" era. When we see Jesus face to face, the ministry is no longer needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway (Post 849682)

I think this nails it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway (Post 849682)

That's what I was (unsuccessfully) trying to say.

that dont sound bad mr steinway!

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

I don't know if we have come to the full understanding of what "the unity of the faith" is. Is it "unity in doctrine"? That seems unlikely as there are so many differences in doctrine among us.

In verse 4, Paul wrote about "the unity of the Spirit" Is this the same as "the unity of the faith". Or is it that it is impossible for us to ever achieve "unity of faith" until we attain "unity of Spirit?"

Unity of Spirit is seen on the day of Pentecost. In fact, virtually every outpouring of the Holy Ghost in the Bible, and in history, was preceeded by spiritual unity. Azusa Street was attended by people of many different religious persuasions, yet, because spiritual unity was the focus, God moved wonderously in their midst. This "spiritual unity" is what Jesus prayed for in John 17. As long as we allow doctrinal division to separate us, we will never see any "unity of the faith"- with or without the 5 fold ministry. We have far too many dividing lines between us for God to be pleased. There are any number of people I disagree with doctrinally, but that doesn't mean I disagree with them spiritually. Even the brother who created this thread. I love him like a brother, but there are doctrinal differences between us- just as there were doctrinal differences between his father and myself. Yet, of all the pastors I knew in days of long ago, no pastor had the respect and love I had for Bro. Marvin Taylor. I felt he was wrong on some issues- and I told him so. And he, in turn, told me where he felt I was wrong. But we had a spiritual unity that transcended our differing doctrinal views. And that spiritual unity is what we all should be endeavoring to achieve.