>>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

"It's all just a game."

That's what a preacher told me, fifteen years ago, immediately after turning in his license with the UPC, and walking away from Oneness Pentecostalism for good.

At the time I thought he must just be bitter over something, and that maybe he was looking to justify a desire to "go Charismatic." After all, why would someone just up and walk away, after being raised in this his whole life, pastoring for decades, and raising his kids in this way? It just didn't seem right, and I was sure he was just plain bitter and backslidden.

Over time, I watched him sever all ties with this way, walking away from every friend and association he previously held dear. It bothered me. After all, if a seasoned minister was succeptible to this sort of radical change, could I fall prey to the pull of gradualism, as well?

As a twenty-something, I listened as my contemporaries spoke of him with contempt.

"Compromiser."

"Backslider."

"Charismatic."

"Liberal."

To my knowledge, not one of them had ever spoken with him about his decision, what led him to leave, and why he considered this way a game. Still, I listened to them, and assumed their assessment must be right.
__________________________________________________

Years passed, and I didn't see or hear from the fallen minister at all. You know how it works. Over time, he was forgotten. Written off. It was as if he had fallen off the face of the earth. Not even worthy of discussion unless someone was preaching a "Trophies of Hell" message.

And as fifteen years have flown by, I've watched the guys who viciously maligned this man follow the same road he travelled.

The reasons they walked away were varied, but all who left spoke with one voice. "It's just a game!"

And now I have been around long enough to understand what they meant.

When a man is serious about his relationship with God, and is passionate about knowing Truth, he searches everything out, questioning everything he's been taught with the goal of defending, strengthening and teaching that which he has been given.

Along the way, in Oneness Pentecostalism, he is apt to find numerous inconsistencies and hypocricies. This is the case in most every religion, and I understand well that we are not alone in duplicity.

However, at a certain age, men start to realize that there is probably less life ahead of them than behind them. The scale of life starts to tip, and eternity comes into full view. At this point, Truth becomes paramount, and ministries are reconfigured to reveal "necessary things" with no regard for fluff.

When this sort of rebirth occurs, one can find oneself on the outside looking in, a pariah to those with whom he found comfort and sanctuary in times past. At this point, he is confronted with a harsh reality. He is forced to prove what he values most - friendships, or Truth.

If he is honest with himself and God, and relinquishes doctrines of men, he will lose everything familiar. If he squelches inner truth, he will survive in his organization, and maintain acceptance within his social circle - at the expense of a good conscience.

And all the while he struggles inwardly, he is confronted with published doctrines that many trumpet, but few live by. He is faced with the glaring inconsistencies of decades-old standards that are loosely maintained through peer pressure and legalistic control. He begins to realize that his life is more about presentation than relationship, conformity than Truth and acceptance than Christ-following.

At this point, he realizes that this way can become a game, the goal of which is to restrain oneself, swallowing all of the inconsistencies and denying much of what you have discovered in the Word that turns previously held beliefs on their head.

All to maintain peace with, and respect amongst, peers.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Good words!

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

WOW! You have said alot there, and some I can identify with.

I think you should acknowledge a couple things.

Of these that have, are, or will fall away, there are those that have indeed become Compromisers, Backsliden, Name and Claim Charismatic, or downright Liberal in all their theology. Still leaves no room for false accusation, but those examples do exist.

There are also those who attend a conservative OP church, and still reject the inordinate fixation on conformity and presentation. Not all conservatives find themselves at the crossroad you describe. Not exactly sure why - but I think many of those ARE being honest, and never experience the "rebirth" or feel they "squelch inner truth". Perhaps that is because not all bought into the extreme aspects of sectarianism early on in their experience.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Of course you're right.

I was one of those who "bought into" the extreme aspects.

As I've always said, I have nary a problem with the overwhelming majority of standards. My problem is with the presentation.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Good words, EA.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

I also acknowledge the situation is more complicated when one is a licensed minister vs a nominal constituent.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

The Emperors New Clothes

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Do you think for some the game becomes real life, the means to the end becomes the end in and of itself, and the journey becomes more important than the destination?

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

What are your thoughts concerning this bolded statement? Have we placed so much emphasis on the destination that we have lost sight of the beauty, joy and value of the journey? Just Thinkin.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

What's this "WE" stuff? We are talking about those other people - not us!:foottap


Just kidding - it is a humbling thought indeed.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

I have always appreciated your candor and adept way at expressing things ...

and value our many conversations ....

This is one of your best ....

There comes a time when we must assess which regrets we are willing to live and die with ...

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

I guess what I'm thinking of is the dear old sisters (okay, the old brothers as well) who testified and said, "Oh, if I can only make it in!" I'm not interested in just barely making it in! I want to enjoy the journey! And I got tired of the "game" and "the rules" that changed in relationship to who was elected in the last conference. Many rules have been made up as the game progressed. Yeh, in too many cases "it just a game!"

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Well said Ed. Well said.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Sure, i would say it cuts both ways. Some are so focused on the prize they are not aware of what beauty God has laid out along the route and others are so preoccupied with what they feel the journey requires they loose sight of the destination.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Ed, you have a unique ability to say a lot of words in a row, that make sence.

I appreciate the thoughtfulness you just expressed.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Edward, That is one of your most thought provoking posts ever! Good job! :thumbsup

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Enjoyed the entire post, but this in particular struck a chord with me. This is exactly why I'm :nuke "nuking" every suspect teaching that I've been indoctrinated with, via critical analysis and debate. And afterwards, if I can answer to Francis Scott Key's question, "Yes Sir, it still stands", then [the true doctrines] may just be worthy of belief. And I'll leave the rubble to those who still want to play their games.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Wow, very, very true...

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

We are all more alike than we are different, we are just not all at the same place at the same time.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

My sentiments exactly...

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

I'm just curious.... how would you feel about the standards if your wife and daughters HATED them?

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Or if God was displeased with them? I can think of a few that flat out call Jesus a hippie and a wino. And to boot, many tendencies that result as a consequence of these so called "standards" are in direct opposition to the ultimate true Christian standard set forth by our Lord as mentioned in Mark 12:31. Now that is a standard. It is based on a moral truth, and can be applied fairly by everyone, to everyone.

And I will add, as Baron once adequately pointed out, part of the problem is defining certain beliefs as standards. Standards of what? Righteousness? Truth? According to the manner in which some apply them, I have a notion to call them standards of silliness. They should be presented as preferences and opinions, nothing more.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Well said EA. Thanks for posting this.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

I really am curious about this. It seems that a lot of people who have no problem with the standards, but don't believe they're salvific, are also surrounded by people who like the lifestyle. But, what if you have some people under your authority who really, really, really dislike the lifestyle? That's when we have a train wreck. That's when things get really complicated and difficult.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

That's when the focus should be on the weightier matters, the focus on outward appearance is so minuscule, in comparison to the greater focus of scripture. Jesus' focus was on the heart, "that man cannot see". A causal review of the gospels, shows His focus and His continual rebuke of the religious leaders in their abuse of the common folk.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Best post of 2010.
I found myself in these words.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Jeff, my feelings exactly! ED, you're words flowed and hit strait to the heart! Thanks for taking the time to share what so many feel, but might be afraid to say!

NFS

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

I think that's a good way to put it.

Sadly, some Christians are mortally wounded in nonsensical culture wars, never living to realize that they could've served God without the fight.

Some, like Saul of Tarsus, are so busy fighting a "righteous" war, believing they are protecting the things of God. Imagine their disgust when they eventually realize - after wasted years - that all of their religious zeal is misplaced, and that they've spent a lifetime FIGHTING truth, instead of fighting FOR truth.

When that realization hits home, it's demoralizing. That's why so many wind up leaving sound doctrine, as well as unbiblical standards. They expended an entire youth fighting for both elements, and cannot separate one from the other.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Excellent & thought-provoking EA! :thumbsup

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

I have to wonder at times if the enemy of our souls sits back in amazement at the confusion we cause amongst the army of God by attacking each other instead of facing him. Meanwhile he continues to destroy lives and capture souls, and we can not defeat him because we are to busy killing our own wounded and fighting for our own little causes.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Good thread. You are usually on target. Our relationship with God must outweigh our religious ambitions.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Good thought!

It's supposed to be Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done.....not My Kingdom Come, My will be done..........

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

A lot of men leave the ministry because they've "tried" to live it. While they preach against sin in the pulpit they are doing what they preach against in secret. His position and his secret life become too unbearable and he can't take it any longer. He either confesses to a confidant, is found out, or he quits before he is humiliated. No one leaves the ministry because things are going well, they leave because something is going on in their lives that they are not admitting to. The "excuse" of pointing the finger at God and saying, "It's just a game", will not stand up at the judgment.

There are genuine ministers who do pass in their resignation because they see the hypocrisies and they step away only to start up their own "Independent" Oneness Church. Which is a good thing because that means the door is open for people like myself that too sees the hypocrisies and I go to that Church. Hooray for me!

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

:blah

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

This is one of the most honest threads I have seen on this forum. I have nothing to add, except -

Thank you.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Well said, EA! All of life is a "game." It just depends on which "game" one is willing to spend one's time on. We can play the "game" of power, respect, position, accomplishment etc. and please men OR we can "battle/play" in things which really matter. When we examine what we are engaged in and realize that we want to make a difference, we see the "game" in an entirely different light.

For me, I don't have time for insignificant trivialities when a world is going to hell. The MOST important things is getting them to Jesus, not a doctrine, not an experience, but the PERSON of Jesus Christ. If that happens, I believe that everything else will fall into place.

I don't have time to play the "game" of men, politics etc. Let lesser, insecure men play those games with those of their "kind." I came, I played and I conquered. Then I realized that it wasn't even really important. I can identify with post. Thanks! :D

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

I assume you mean standards of membership? I agree that some folks just love the culture. Perhaps it gives them a sense of comfort and belonging, after all, that's human nature. However, I believe the "train wreck" occurs when folks get confused and attempt to standardize righteousness, holiness and truth by their own performances, when in fact, God has already become the standard...in the person of Jesus Christ.

As for those who really, really dislike the lifestyle? Maybe ministers and saints are getting in the way of these precious folks' pursuit to be like Jesus?

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

Wow.

I enjoyed the first post, but this one, to me, raised the bar another notch.

Re: >>>"It's All Just a Game."
 

WOW. Just WOW!

Send this link to headquarters!

Go tell it on the mountain!