The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

I was just doing some reading regarding Common Law Marriages. These marriages are unions that are legally recognized though not solemnized by the state. In states where Common Law Marriages are recognized the law requires a legal divorce or dissolution of marriage for the union to be broken. Most states that recognize common law marriages have a certain criteria that must be met. These would be as follows,

* live together for a significant period of time (not defined in any state)
* hold themselves out as a married couple -- typically this means using the same last name, referring to the other as "my husband" or "my wife," and filing a joint tax return, and
* intend to be married.

Recognition of Common Law Marriages vary by state. Here is a listing of states wherein Common Law Marriages are recognized,

Alabama
Colorado
District of Columbia
Georgia (if created before 1/1/97)
Idaho (if created before 1/1/96)
Iowa
Kansas
Montana
New Hampshire (for inheritance purposes only)
Ohio (if created before 10/10/91)
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania (if created before 1/1/05)
Rhode Island
South Carolina
Texas
Utah

Seeing that I weary of Government's involvement in marriage, I find notion of two people simply choosing to be married in the eyes of God without state sanctioned solemnization interesting. My question is however, should churches where Common Law Marriages are legally binding recognize such unions?

Just an interesting subject. What are your thoughts?

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

I coulda swore virginia had common law marriages.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

Looks like you need to get officially hitched jfrog. :lol

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

I feel the same way about the State's involvement in marriage. The whole issue of gay marriage only exists because we have let marriage become a state defined entity.

If marriages where were they should be... in the church... and not licensed by the state then the only decider in that battle would be the church and the church alone.

It is a shame that Gods children have come to the point that they don't view a marriage as valid unless it is sanctioned by the state.

The odd thing is that they do consider it valid if it isn't done before God... but not if it isn't done before the state.

Someone can go to the Justice of the Peace... a state entity... and get married completely outside the church body... it's valid... because the state said so.

Someone can get married and say they are not going to get a state marriage license... there are questions.

God isn't good enough when it comes to marriage these days but the state will serve just fine.

How odd.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

I suppose the greater question would be: Did God give the authority to the church or to the government to perform marriages?

If to the church, how do non-christians become married. If to the church would a Jehovah's Witness Church actually have the authority to perform marriages? If you answer no, I'm sure they would disagree with you. They would probably even doubt your churches authority to perform marriages.

In other words, in many cases churches would teach that only marriages performed by a church with similar views could be considered a legitimate marriage. So, I actually think that marriage is more ably handled in the governments hands than it is in the hands of all the different religions of America. At least no one can tell you that you aren't really married when the government does it. Well, I guess we might tell the gays and lesbos that...

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

One question I just thought of...

I know many early christians didn't get married, but does anyone know how marriage happened for the ones that did?

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

It’s my conviction that marriages should be private arrangements. Certainly churches could solemnize marriage; however, two individuals should be able to solemnize their marriage privately. All that I think should be necessary is record of the two proclaiming to be married by using same name etc. I don’t believe the government should regulate the most private and intimate arrangements of adults. The Bible tells us, “What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.” (Mark 10:9). The key here for me is, “What therefore God hath joined together,” God is the one who unites couples… not the state, not the church. Even allowing the church authority to solemnize marriage is uncomfortable. Remember, it was the Roman Catholic Church that outlawed marriage for priests and even regulated the marriage of soldiers and nobility. Yes, churches also abuse their power in this area. Some would refuse to solemnize interracial couples. I vote that marriage should be a private matter determined by two adults, much like common law marriage standards. But that’s just me.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

I wouldn't disagree with that.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

I believe there needs to be SOME government meddling in the sense that married couples enjoy many legal rights.

However I completely agree with the bolded part. Ever hear the horror stories of couples trying to get married on bible colleges? Or some more UC church's where a number of "permissions" are required, such as from pastors and parents?

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

In today's world, there needs to be more than a private commitment. Even years ago, I knew a girl who made a private commitment-to a man in each of about 5 cities!! Since the private commitments weren't legally recognized, she wasn't considered a polygamist, and had convinced herself she wasn't in fornication. However, by her actions, she was edangering herself, the guys she was with, and all of their partners too. She was also creating difficulties for any children that might come from one of the arrangements, due to the need for paternity tests and the legalities of child support.

That was 20 years ago. Those arrangements are much more common now. I have a relative who engaged in such an arrangement. Probably more than one. And I'm from a conservative family. The thing is, if the arrangement isn't legalized and legitimized, if there is ever a split, there will be no protection for either party. Thankfully the law does somewhat protect any children born to the arrangement. There isn't always in cases of divorce, either, and I understand that. But it does present some special problems.

In Bible times, when a man slept with a single woman, he was stuck with her for life. That is not the case in today's society. The law is there to protect the family structure. It doesn't always do a good job of it, but it does help, IMO.

Of course, I'm also very much for pre-nups, and many OPs would have my head for that! Talk it out, put it in writing, decide it all before the vows. It will save a lot of disputes later if it is well discussed beforehand. Not because you might get divorced, but as a written plan for how things will work so that you don't get divorced. Again, JMO

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

I think the government shouldn't meddle at all. If a couple takes on a single name, cohabitates, and declares themselves "married" the Government should honor that couple's agreement. Perhaps couples should voluntarily register their unions with the government...not be processed by the government prior to marriage.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

You bring up valid points. With common law marriages, a common law marriage isn't recognized if a member of the couple can be found to have been previously married. In the case of a series of common law marriages, should a divorce proceed, evidence of a prior common law marriage in another state or what have you would nullify the union entirely. I guess the deceived spouse could then sue for damages and reparations in civil court.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

But all this doesn't answer one of my questions. In states where common law marriages are legally accepted... do churches in said states recognize these unions?

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

Probably varies from one church to another (like everything else). In my experience (AG), common law marriages weren't explicitly condemned (that I recall), but they were spoken of in ways that made them seem like not much more than just living together. IOW, no: not recognized as real marriages. I think pastors were pretty much afraid to take a stand on the issue.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

But only with greater cost and time for the deceived spouse.

I don't know about all churches, but I've never known of any, either denominal or OP, that accepted common law marriage as adequate. They might not consider them to be "living in sin", but neither would they condone continuing without a legally sanctioned and liscensed marriage.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

Sis. Mary, the point is that in these states common law marriages are indeed legally binding unions. The only issue is that the state hasn't "solemnized" said unions in a civil ceremony. In these states for one to legally terminate a common law marriage they must file for dissolution or file for divorce as with any "solemnized" marriage. If these unions are pefectly legal and recognized on the same level as any ceremonialized marriage...why do the churches you speak of not accept or recognize them?

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

Because as you stated before, they are not recognized in every state, they are not considered legally binding by all people, there isn't a marriage license on file with the state, and once they begin coming to church, they are encouraged to make their vows before God.

Aquila, there are some OP churches that encourage that every new convert couple renew their vows, not because the marriages weren't true marriages, but because they are now committing to God and each other.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

I don't know what the law in Ohio says about "common law" marriage.

My oldest son lived with a woman for several years. They went to a Charismatic Church. The pastor preached occasionally against living together without being married. They decided to get married and did the whole thing legally getting a marriage license and then their pastor conducted a wedding ceremony when we were all gathered together at their home. But, one thing I found interesting was that he told them that if they did not want to do the whole license thing, he would bless their union (I think with a ceremony) and it would be the same thing as being legally married as far as he was concerned.

By the way, we all love the woman he married and she has been considered part of the family way before they made it legal.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

Question for you, do you by any chance follow Michael Pearl and his teachings? I'm just curious, you are really into the house church scenario and then you posted this thought, which is one of the latest issues that he is publishing about. Just curious, I try to stay up to date with what is going on with that ministry because my best friend has gotten really immersed in it.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

One of the things that Michael Pearl said in the article that I read, (simplified) is that you could have a religious ceremony and then form a written contract of marriage, have it witnessed and then take it the county clerk and have it filed on record. You would have legal contract, but it would not be a state governed union.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

A simple answer, no.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

why not?

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

What in your mind makes something a "state governed" union?

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

Sorry to disappoint but I am not debating anything here, I don't really have a strong opinion or feeling on the subject either way. I was simply repeating what was said in the article I read. I really don't care, I was just interested to know if Aquila was a follower of this guy, a lot of what he says sounds very similar.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

Never heard of him. But it does cause me to pause...if a union is legal, be it solemnized by the government or common law, why not recognize it?

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

Bump! :winkgrin

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

I'm not sure about the idea of renewing one's vows at the behest of a church. However, in the case of a new convert I see what they are attempting to accomplish. I'd say at the very least there should be a family dedication to the Lord.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

I am reminded of one sister and her husband in our church. Her children and grandchildren had all prayed through with us in our altars and had been a part of the church for years.

Grandma was the daughter of immigrants, an American citizen who had moved back and forth across the border seasonally when she was younger but now settled in the States. Grandpa was a Mexican citizen and had also settled in the States and they raised their family here together. They had never "officially" married.

After Grandma prayed through and was baptized (many years after her children and grandchildren) we all rejoiced together. Her children raised the issue of marriage. To be honest no one else had even given the matter a thought, they had been together for so long (30+ years) that we all assumed they were married.

In the end, to satisfy the longings of their children (and to have an excuse for a big party) they were "officially" married in the church. Both were baptized in time and have since passed away. One of their daughters died tragically many years back, but the rest of the family still populates different churches around the region.

I've wondered if the "common law" status would have been sufficient to give the Grandpa American citizenship. This issue was never tested so I guess we'll never know.

Re: The, eh, stuff that marriages are made of...
 

I think a marriage should be a union of two souls before anything.
The soul knows it's kind.
the soul of one can and will in the end recognize it's mate no matter what else is going on.
the union in a church brings it before god. But god already knew the story.
the fact that these states feel it necessary to require a divorce for a marriage that has no certification in the church is not okay under many lights. We choose to marry. It is called free will my friends! the gov. should not be dictating what we are if a man and women live together however if a man and women live together i feel it should be a temporary thing of short standing (i am talking Mos.) then ether marry or move on!