Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Hi Dom,

The name preserved in the Greek language is Iesous. You want me to call Jesus Iesous?

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

I think Joshua ... or Josue are accurate as well.

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Iēsoûs is Iesus, which is Jesus. Christians have been baptized in that name for over 2,000 years and counting.

By the way Michael, didn't you call me *Dom* ?

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

If the Lords name was preserved in the Greek language and it is Iesous why are we using Jesus? Transliteration is to make a name sound the same in one language as another right?

Then the transliteration of Iesous (Yay soos) should have the same sound in English.

Also how about the "s" at the end? Was it preserved by God? Was not the s added to the name to make it conform to the Greek language?

If the s were removed would it yield Iesou? Is that pronounced Yay soo?

Yes I called you Dom. Is that not the name I knew you by in Paltalk?

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

The Greek pronunciation is not
Yay soos
The Iota does not have a y sound in this case.

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Thats what Strongs gives it. What would you say is the true pronounciation?

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

There is a difference in sound vs grammatical meaning. They don't always bring about equivalents in both areas.

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

I am concerned about the name sounding the same from one language to another. EB has exhorted me to use the name preserved in the Greek language. I have read much about the name in Hebrew/Aramaic. I have began to look into the Greek name some a while back.

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

I'm not sure how certain we can be of how anything was pronounced, that long ago. BTW, there is speculation that we could actually hear some recorded sounds, such as speaking, on ancient pottery! The idea is that, as the clay turns, someone is scraping it with a tool while they are talking, and the sound vibrates the tool (microscopically) and records the sound as if it were a phonograph. Cool, huh? Far as I know, nobody has successfully played anything back, but I haven't really dug into this. Wouldn't it be great if some potter just happened to say "Iēsoûs" at exactly the right moment? :D

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

This idea was brought up on an episode of CSI a few seasons ago and of course was used to capture a bit of incriminating evidence during the investigation.

However, the Mythbusters more or less busted the idea when they utterly failed to record anything on a clay pot under optimal conditions and using good equipment (other then the clay pot itself).

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Yeah? Haven't seen that one. But the 'busters are known for declaring things busted just because they couldn't recreate it. But yes, it does seem far-fetched. Still, fun to speculate. ;)

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

BTW, the decoding process would likely not be to spin the pot on a turntable and stick a phono needle on it! It would be to look for and analyze variations in the depth of tool-marks on the pot. Very, very tiny variations. And you'd have to be very, very lucky!

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

I do agree that they often 'bust' things because it doesn't work for them, when the myth itself may represent a 1 in a million or 1 in a billion chance. It would be like them testing the lottery and saying it is busted because in 10 tries they never got more then 2 of the 6 numbers.

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Jesus, old testament joshua, good enough for me, he knows it is me

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

and why would it matter the Greek when the Hebrew/Aramaic is more important as it is the source language.

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

The source language? I thought most (all?) of the NT was written in Greek. :dunno

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

uhhh The source of the people that did most of the writing and that of the Bible is Hebrew and Aramaic. Greek means little. Matthew was most likely originaly in Hebrew. The mind of Paul is that of a Hebrew and thus based upon OT scripture. Thus the source language will always be Hebrew with some Aramaic.

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

I see, thanks.

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

And, by the time of Jesus and the early church the apostles and preachers were using the Septuagint or LXX or Greek OT.

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Oh.

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Most still taught in the Hebrew and Aramaic languages even then.

The Gentiles may have later but those of the Apostles would certantly would have been schooled at the earliest and later in Hebrew.

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Im usually the one who says that. It certainly is not wrong to use the Greek name. Can anyone who thinks I should use the name preserved in Greek answer the questions I have asked?

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Its my understanding most of the Dead Sea Scrolls are in Hebrew followed by Aramaic then Greek.

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Legalist,

Well since they seems to be little interest in the Greek name here what name do you accept as the original Hebrew/Aramaic?

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Mike you want me to answer what? I didn't notice where you answered me.
LXX was 200 years before the birth of Jesus Christ, and 2,000 years after His death burial and resurrection you have the name of Jesus Christ being used.
The Greek is Iesoûs is pronounced EE Sues, while in Latin it pronounced GEE Sue. Hence we have GEE Sus. Now Michael, how about dealing with my original statement that you first referred to? Mike you want me to answer what? I didn't notice where you answered me.

LXX was 200 years before the birth of Jesus Christ, and 2,000 years after His death burial and

While the insanity of the Hebrew roots movement has confused the name of Jesus, because of the "guess name" of Yashua, Yavahashua, Yoshua, Yeshua, so on and so on. We must consider that the tried and true responce would be to use the name that has been handed down through 2,000 years. Sounds way to easy? Whatever. ;)

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Just say Jesus...The Brazilians call me one way, the Americans another but I know they are talking to me...I would guess Jesus knows when we are talking to him..lol..
and I am a person that loves foreign languages but I do not think we have to go back and change Jesus to something that some people cannot even pronounce....

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

No one on this thread has said you or anyone else has to call Jesus anything other than Jesus. Dom said to me in another thread that I should start calling the Lord, Jesus. This is something I already do quite frequently.

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Ok here is what I am asking.

1. The name preserved in Greek is Iesous. Why are you not calling him by the name you said is preserved? If you can pronounce it as is why does it need to be changed? Isnt that what transliteration is about?

2. Do you think its true that the "s" at the end of the name Iesous was added by men to make it conform to the Greek language? Or do you believe there should be an s at the end of his given name?

As to the LXX what I have heard is that the name Iesous is supposed to be a transliteration for the Hebrew name which appears for the name "Joshua" in the Hebrew. Care to comment?

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Mike, the name Iēsoûs is Jesus. The Hebrew and Aramaic is where we tend to slip and slide all over the place. Yesha, Yahshua, Yahoshua, Yoshua, Yahavahsua, Yeshea, so on and so on. Iēsoûs Iesus is Jesus. Way easier to find a primary source for *JESUS*. Then to jump hurdles through the Your Here Where Here guess names.

Could you explain the below for me?

ιησουν ιησους

The LXX 200 years before Christ. The NT text of Hebrews 4:8 calls Joshua, Jesus.

No need for guess names, you have the NAME it's JESUS. :winkgrin

In Iesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Ok you must then believe the Hebrew Savior was born with a Greek name. Then you are saying that name is the same as what we have in English. You mock the Hebrew/Aramaic and exalt the English name that came many hundreds of years later.

Now is it true that the "s" at the end of Jesus was added by men? I have read that was done because Greek names (male) needed an s on the end.

Why was Jesus called Iesu in times past? Was that his name in Greek? Or was it Iesus? Which was inspired? Which is HIS NAME?

Is it true that Jewish names in our English Bible that start with "J" in the Hebrew started with "Y"?

Did the "I" in old English sound like a Y? These are factors in why I believe as I do.

Mind you I am not mocking the name Jesus. I DO use it. I DO believe it is the highest name in the English language. Many times I have confirmed this.

What I do not believe is that he was ever called it by his family, friends or the Apostles.

I am trying to understand the case for the Greek being a transliteration from the Hebrew/Aramaic. It would be helpful to me in this quest if you give solid answers to my questions not just attacks against this group or that. If you cannot thats ok. Im not going to be mad at anyone for using a name I myself use much of the time.

But remember you are the one who is telling me what name I should use to the exclusion of anything else. I have said no such thing to you. So I feel the burden of proof is on you to convince me that IESOUS was the source name and that it was not a transliteration of an original Hebrew/Aramaic name.

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

I pointed out that whatever or however His ARAMAIC name was pronouced the Hebrew Roots, and others are at odds over it.

Therefore I posted some of the diffferent ways it is spelled by different groups.

There are those who use Yesha, Aramaic for salvation, and from that point the lists gets longer and stranger with every combination.

Therefore it boggles the mind to see individuals make such great attempts to use a name that is spelt and pronuced so many different ways.

Also, why doesn't the Hebrew Roots movement devotees ever want to consider how much Helenization was taking place in Jerusalem prior to the birth of Jesus? None of the Hebrew Roots people ever want to deal with the fact that Jesus had two disciples (who were apostles) who had Greek names.
Andrew and Phillip, were Jews who both had Greek names. Jews who were Hellenized since Alexander The Great and Antiochus Epiphanes.

Mike, therefore the use of the name Jesus Christ is closer to the original than what Hebrew Roots or Messianic Rabbinical Christians care to admit.

My name in Greek is Dominicous in Greek, and in Greek grammer the end changes depending on how you use it in a sentence. Iēsoûs is Iesu, Iesus, and Jesus.

In Greek the ending changes to either the sigma, omicron, or ni, depending how you use it in a sentence. I said all that to show you that there isn't any hocus pocus concerning the Greek god Zeus and the use of a sigma in the male names in the Greek language.



[QUOTE=Michael The Disciple;872070
Then you are saying that name is the same as what we have in English.[/quote]

I'm trying to stress the facts that you have His name as Iesoûs 200 years before His birth and Iesus, JESUS 2,000 years and counting. Why in the world should I make great lengths to try some linguistical contortions to make up a Hebraic sounding *guess name* for Jesus?

Mike, do you keep a Jewish Sabbath? Do keep Kosher? Do you blow a shofar in your gatherings? Do you call your church meetings a synagogue (Synagogue "by the way is a GREEK WORD"). Do you wear a prayer shawl? Last but not least, do you wear a Jewish skull cap? I am just asking, some questions. Just trying to understand why you always want to adress people (people who for the most part always say the name Jesus in their posts) with YHWH and Yeshua?



Mocking? Mike, what Hebrew name? Which Hebrew name are you talking about? Which of the many different word jumbles do you speak of?

Mike, the Greek and Latin have preserved the name correctly, the 70 Diaspora Jews who compiled the LXX have the Aramaic name transliterated as Iesoûs.
In the NT scriptures the name for Joshua appears as Iesoûs. Iesoûs is Iesus (Latin) which is Jesus. I know it sounds too easy, but that is because we have been using it for way over 2200 years COUNTING.

Masculine and feminine is used in other languages. I heard the Hebrew Root Devotees claim it is because of Zeus? Is that why you are asking? Would that be the same for other languages that use masculine and feminine?

Why was Jesus called Iesu in times past? Was that his name in Greek? Or was it Iesus? Which was inspired? Which is HIS NAME?

Is it true that Jewish names in our English Bible that start with "J" in the Hebrew started with "Y"?

Started with an *I* yet there is no truth to the idea that the early English *I* produced a yaah sound. In Greek iota makes the eeeh sound, and not a yaah sound. 2200 years and counting Michael, and the Hebraic word jumbles roll on and on.

Why when the old English use the Latin *I* which makes a gee sound, not a yee sound. Like Iesu, which phonetically GEE-sue. Hence the reason for the KJV 1611 having the name of Jesus spelled with the Latin *I.*

Do you live in a country that requires you to speak ancient Hebrew or Aramaic?

Doesn't everyone (for the most part) post in English in this forum?

My question would then be, why constantly use YHWH, and Yeshua if we are all English speaking posters, and Jesus is the highest name in the English language?

Mike, so why would then all the Hebrew Roots guys and gals constantly refuse get it strait on what to call Him?

I mean you all say that you want to call Him what His mom called Him, and yet the movement seems to dive into some Jewish etymological nightmare.

Mike do you wear peyos?

Fabulous, so then there is no harm, no foul. I'm just interested to find out why if you believe Jesus is the highest name in the English language, that you continue to use YHWH, and Yeshua to a posting forum who is made up largely of English speaking posters? What are your church services like? Do you call yourself or your pastor a rabbi? I'm serious, why the whole ancient Hebrew thing? Maybe the better question would be, WHEN do you use the name Jesus? Do you use it in baptism? Do you cast out devils in Jesus' name?
Do you pray over your meals in Jesus' name? Do you ever use the term HaShem?


No, after going through this post, I think you have made a clear case how you believe Jesus is the highest name in the English language. My question is why? Why believe that, (because in order to believe that you must believe it's correct and true) and post to Engish speaking posters, with the lesser correct form of the name? Do you know that YHWH is a verb, and not a name?

It means, I am the one who will be here, I am the one who is coming, I am the one yet to come, I am the one who will be, so on and so one.

Mike, after I keep having someone tell me Yesshua, Yahavashua, Yoshua, Yashu, Yeshu, Yuuhoo, Yahoo, Yahmee, Yavay, Howie, and Joey. I always without fail ask them why not just use what works, and has been working for over 2200 years and counting. It is no conspiracy theory for the name of Jesus Christ, (as you well know because you say it is the highest in English). So why not lift it up and use it, always.

Brother Mike, how many ways is the source name pronounced in Hebrew? It is a coin toss, by those in the Hebrew ranks. So, therefore why not use the highest name in the English language (your words)? The name that came from the highest name in the Greek and Latin. I just can't see using some rubix cubed guess name for Jesus, when you have a name that has been the name above all names for 2200 years and counting.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Sure hope you guys get it figured out.

Once you get the right spelling, I'm sure it's just as important to pronounce it right, too! :lol

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

:ursofunny

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

You think the top hat and peep stones may get the jobb done?

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

More than likely, from what I've studied, the name that was given to Mary was Yeshua or Yehoshua. There is no "J" in the Hebrew "aleph-bet." When the disciples said that there was no other name, they most certainly did NOT use "Jesus."

That being the case, I still baptize in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. The "correct" name or pronunciation is not a "talisman" or incantation that causes things to happen...it is the person of Jesus Christ which the name we use represents. If we say we must return to the "original" then we'll more than likely have to go back to Yeshua. I'm not for that even though it is probably correct. Remember, the Greek language was used to communicate throughout the Roman empire since that was the language of it, but the writers were Jewish not Greek. The mistake most seminaries make is the over study of Greek culture, language etc to understand the NT. It was Jewish minds and cultures which wrote the NT not greeks. :D

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

I basically agree with this. Nonetheless I have baptized a number of people in the name of Yeshua. My reasoning if you know the name why not use it? I dont remember trying to persuade anyone who was baptized in Jesus name to be rebaptized. I have baptized a few that requested it.

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

This I feel would be of interest.
http://www.leestrobel.com/videoserve...p=strobelT3967

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

I would not have a problem with someone being baptized that way, even though I don't. Big difference between that and someone being baptized in the name of "George!" If you get my drift! LOL

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Excuse me, but aren't you proving my point with the above? So, it is a coin toss between the two? Heads Yeshua, tails Yehoshua?

I guess it is just too easy to use a name that has been in business for over 2200 years and climbing. What is the name of the Messiah? Wouldn't the skinny answer would be Jesus? Yet, the students just reel back on their heels to hear the doctor tell them it is a guess beetween two words?


Yes, since a coin toss is just a wee bit ludicrous, you do what?

Now isn't that just amazing! Wow, the lucky boys and girls are never dependent on a coin flip.

The person of Jesus Christ?

Isn't a correct name or formula used in world history to show the authority of whose name and formula being used?

Therefore you sign your checks with your personal name, business name, and use proper account numbers, so to give authority for transaction. Therefore baptisms through out history wether they were Christian or pagan evoked a name or formula. All to show authority of the particular group, shaman, priest, or deity.

I by no means believe water baptism to be magic, using an incantation or abracadabra, being spoken over the neophyte. Water baptism in Jesus' name has all to do with the baptizer, and the baptizee. The individual being baptized needs to be a believer or one who trusts in the owner of the name.
The one who baptizes also should be one who trusts and believes in the authority of the one who owns the name. Genealogy in the Bible was crucial to the children of Israel, and therefore it was painstaking work to make sure you was begat by who, and who was married to who. All a collection of names of different male patriarchal leaders of different families.

Jesus speaks to Nicodemus about rebirth, and the rebirth that Jesus speaks of will use water baptism. A mikvah that will be done in the authority of the one who owns the name. All those who would take on that name through baptism would be added to the lineage of the one who owned the name.

The prophet Isaiah asks the queestion of who shall declare His generation (Isa 53:8)?

Jesus died young and without lineage, yet, through the power of His resurrection and His Spirit we are added to His genealogy by taking His name.


Heads?

Aren't you not for that because you presently use a name that has been around for over 2200 years? We aren't talking about splicing DNA here, we are talking about historical proofs throughout time.

So, that means what? If someone is Mexican and has full knowledge of a foreign language (a language of commerce) that would make him less Mexican? No, but how about a Mexican named Tse Lu, who can speak and write Chinese, but he was raised in Mexico, others in his city were also business people who dealt with Chinese, and therefore would be able to effectively communicate in Chinese. Would that make those Mexican any less Mexican?

The Jews in the time of Jesus, spoke the language of the occupation which was Latin, the language of world commerce, which was Greek, and the language of their religion Hebrew. Those who lived around Judea spoke Aramaic. 200 years before Christ, the OT was translated into Greek, that OT LXX would be quoted from the New Testament scrolls used by the early church. None of those scrolls were written in Hebrew or Aramaic, because this wasn't a message just for a desert city, but for aan entire world throughout history. Andrew, and Phillip were as Jewish as Jesus, but they both had Greek names, given to them by Jewish parents. The name of Jesus has been preserved for over 2200 years and counting, no coin toss, no word jumbles, and no guess work. Just use the most used name...Jesus.


MOW, how many years was the Jews under Gentile occupation?

What seminary did you go to?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Re: Evangelist Benincasa Said
 

Not sure how this applies to the current topic, but it is interesting. :D