UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

A pair of British church leaders are under fire for preaching in sermons that "modern women's" lack of obedience is to blame for the country's high divorce rate, The Daily Mail reported.

Vicar Angus MacLeay urged the congregation at St. Nicholas Church in Sevenoaks, Kent, to "submit" to their husbands. A few days later, Curate Mark Oden preached, "We know marriage is not working."


"We only need to look at figures -- one in four children have divorced parents. Wives, submit to your own husbands," Oden said.


MacLeay is a leading member of the evangelical group Reform, which opposes the ordination of female clergy in the Church of England, the paper reported.


The sermons sparked outrage among many churchgoers, especially women.
One woman said she was "disgusted."


"How can they talk that way in the 21st century?" she told the Daily Mail.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-husbands.html

Re: UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

Hopefully he's also preaching "men, love your wives as Christ loved the church". There is more than one side to this story.

Re: UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

Really? Do you have a link to the other sides of this story? :smack

Re: UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

I think he needs to come preach to our ladies! :slaphappy

:bolt

Re: UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

Yeah, it's in the Bible.



(I didn't mean the story in the newspaper, I meant the story of broken marriages.)

Re: UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

There are always 2 sides to every story, BUT I am seeing more problems with women than men lately.

We have ahd a rash of marriages on the verge of divorce, some actually getting divorced, and in every case...the man is still in churhc and the women has either left, sits on the very fringe or has thrown away every semblance of traditional holiness on her way out of her marrige. In every case the women (they have made it clear and don't keep quiet about it) say they want to relive their lost youth. They went, in many cases, and got young boyfriends. They tossed their husbands to the wayside in order to live it up.

I'm watching thesse men, men who have been faithful for years (not perfect, but faithful) try to scramble to pick up pieces and hold their families togetehr because their wives wouldn't submit to them and follow their leadership. Instead they knew better and were going to "enjoy themselves". NO9w they have wrecked entire families.

Yes there are always 2 sides, but Im seeing a lot more women acting like teenage tramps than I am men messing around on their wives. Probably because sadly it appears to be more acceptable now that women be the cheaters.

Re: UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

Tis what it is...

Re: UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

I received this a while ago from Charisma Online and thought I would pass it on. The passage in Ephesians 5:22-24 has often been torn from its context and used to justify all kinds of ignorance, abuse and “male chauvinism.” I think it’s necessary to first read verse 21 which leads into the passage and tells husbands and wives to submit to one another. Then verses 25-33 expllain it more fully and teach that a man is to love his wife like Christ loves the church and to love his wife as much as he loves himself. If we love our wives like Jesus loves the church it would be a selfless and sacrificial love which does not insist on its own way, a love that is caring, unslefish, understanding, and compassionate and relenquishes personal agendas and some times even relenquishes the TV remote. Also, if we love our wife like we love ourselves, we would be no harder on her than we are on ourselves, we will pamper her like we pamper ourselves, and make the same excuses for her that we make for ourselves.

The Dark Side of Submission
by J. Lee Grady

Christian teaching on male headship is often used as a weapon against women. This abuse must be confronted.

Last week during a ministry trip to Hungary I heard a painfully familiar story. Through a translator, a tearful young woman living near Budapest explained that her Christian husband was angrily demanding her absolute submission. This included, among other things, that she clean their house according to his strict standards and that she engage in sexual acts with him that made her feel uncomfortable and dirty.

This lady was not demanding her rights or trying to be disrespectful. She was a godly, humble woman who obviously wanted to please the Lord. But she had been beaten to a pulp emotionally, and she was receiving little help from her pastor—who was either unwilling or unprepared to confront wife abuse.

I've heard so many sickening versions of this scenario. In Kenya recently, several women told me their AIDS-infected husbands often raped them—and then their pastors told them they must submit to this treatment. In some parts of India, even some pastors believe it is acceptable to beat their wives if they argue with them or show any form of disrespect. And in some conservative churches in the United States, women are told that obedience to God is measured by their wifely submission—even if their husbands are addicted to alcohol or pornography, or if they are involved in adulterous affairs.

This distortion of biblical teaching has plunged countless Christian women into depression and emotional trauma. I'm not sure which is worse: The harsh words they hear from their husbands, or the perverse way the Bible is wielded as a leather belt to justify domestic abuse. Here are three truths we must uncover in order to solve this problem:

1. Marriage is not a hierarchy. Traditionalists assume that a Christian marriage is defined as a dominant husband who makes all family decisions while the wife graciously obeys without input. Yet Scripture actually portrays marriage as a loving partnership and refers to the wife as a "fellow heir of the grace of life" (1 Peter 3:7, NASB). And the apostle Paul taught that in the realm of sexuality, husbands and wives share equal authority over each other's bodies (see 1 Cor. 7:4). In other words, submission in this most intimate part of a marriage covenant is mutual, and this same mutuality is the key to any happy marriage; it fosters respect, communication and an enduring bond.

2. Headship is not a license to control. Traditionalists also cite Ephesians 5:23 to remind wives that their husbands are their "heads"—and they believe this term requires some type of dictatorial control in marriage. Yet the Greek word used in this passage, kephale, does not have anything to do with heavy-handed authority and it cannot be used to enforce male domination. Neither does it imply male superiority. The word can either mean "source" (as in the source of a river) or "one who leads into battle" (as a protector).

Neither original definition of this word gives room for abuse. Headship, in its essence, is not about "who's the boss." Rather it refers to the Genesis account of Eve being taken from Adam's side. The husband is the "source" of the wife because she originated from him, and she is intimately connected to him in a mystical union that is unlike any other human relationship.

3. Men who abuse their wives are out of fellowship with God. 1 Peter 3:7 is clear: "You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so your prayers will not be hindered." Wife abuse is no trivial sin. Any man who berates his wife, treats her as inferior or engages in abusive behavior (including hitting, kicking, raping, cursing at or threatening punishment) will jeopardize his fellowship with the Lord. He will feel frustrated and convicted until he repents.

(And in the same way, I believe, pastors who silently support abusive husbands by refusing to confront the behavior—or by telling women to submit to the pain—participate in this sin and could find their own prayers hindered.)

Truly Christian marriages, according to the apostle Paul, involve a tender, servant-hearted and unselfish husband who (1) loves his wife "just as Christ also loved the church;" (2) loves her as his own body; and (3) loves her as himself (see Eph. 5:25, 28 33). He stands alongside his wife in faithfulness, and she joyfully respects her husband because he can be trusted. And the two become one.

If we are to uphold this golden standard, we must confront abuse, shelter its victims and provide the tough love and counseling necessary to heal troubled relationships. And we have no business telling women to stay in marriages that actually could put them or their children in danger.

J. Lee Grady is editor of Charisma.

Re: UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

Ya I know. It is those wim-men not learning to SUB mit <spit flying>.

I can think of one or two women that have left their husbands but in virtually every case it is the man leaving with the new trophy girlfriend. Then again, after seeing how some men treat their wives who can blame them when someone else comes along and sweeps them off their feet?

Re: UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

Men are responsible to obey the Word. They aren't responsible for making their wives obey the Word. Forced submission isn't submission--it's subservience. God doesn't force men to submit to Him, and He's, well, He's GOD! So where do men EVER get the idea that it's their job to force their wives into submission???? Submission is a personal choice by definition. If you take away the choice factor, you've changed the whole dynamic, and it's meaningless.

Men in today's society are just as much to blame for the breakdown of the family as women. MOST women won't have too much trouble submitting to a man who loves them as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it. A woman's biblical role is to care for the home and submit to her husband's authority; a man's role is to provide for his family and give himself for his wife. Sounds to me like it's the man who's in the servant's role. :coffee2

The servant-leader concept starts at home?

Re: UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

I wouldn't recommend promoting that analogy! Though God doesn't "force" submission, there is horrible punishment for not submitting. Apparently, a lot of men take their cue from God, in that regard.

Re: UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

Are you talking about in the church? Outside of the church, you have men who don't even want to commit to marriage in the first place, let alone be faithful to their wives once they do get married. Men who expect a woman to sleep with them if they buy her dinner, and mock women who save themselves for marriage. Men who are addicted to porn, and unrealistically expect regular women to look (and act) like porn stars.

Additionally, IN the church, you have men who want their wives to look very holy, but they're constantly admiring worldly women. Women pick up on those messages loud and clear. If a husband is constantly commenting on how plain Apostolic women are, and how beautiful movie stars are, his wife will abscond with traditional holiness and try to be beautiful for him according to the standards HE has subconsciously set. (No matter what he says to the contrary--actions speak louder than words.) A man who is constantly critiquing the Apostolic "look" can expect his wife to veer in another direction.

Men in the church sometimes use the Bible as an excuse to be bossy, mean, belligerent, and unkind. That isn't what it means to be a leader, and most MEN wouldn't submit to a pastor or employer who acted like that, so why do they expect their wives to do it? Submission to a husband is a biblical mandate that goes right along with the man's biblical mandates. The two have to work together. Men who don't go out of their way to provide for their families, love their wives in the sense of giving of themselves selflessly for her benefit, have no reasonable expectation of submission.

Men have the harder job in the home, from a biblical perspective, but those who really fulfill those mandates seem to be few and far between. Most just want to bring home money, relax on the couch, and say, "Submit to me, woman, and bring me some iced tea--you have to because the Bible sez so!"

Do I believe in submission? Yes! Absolutely. I just get tired of hearing women being harped on all the time! If it's not about how women should look, it's about how women should act. I can count on one hand the number of sermons I've heard in my life that were intended solely for men, teaching them how to be godly men, especially in reference to their homes. And one of those was a cassette tape from a men's conference, where presumably men were the only ones available to listen, so I'm not sure that counts. That seems so backwards--men are the ones doing the majority of the teaching and preaching, so they should have WAY more to say to men than to the women. JMO!!!!

Re: UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

Be quiet! Leave my analogy alone! :toofunny

Re: UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

I am a man.
I've been married (to the same woman) for over 50 years.
And I agree with what you say.

Re: UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

I agree. It does not change the fact that here I am seeing a lot more women being the unfaithful spouse ruining their families than I am men.

Re: UK Pastor "Wives Submit To Your Husband"
 

Women are better educated and have more opportunities today than years ago.
Today's single mom does not face the social stigma that a divorcee faced years ago.
There are women's advocacy groups and shelters for women that did not exist years ago.
Years ago women did not have much choice but to remain in abusive situations.
Many marriages years ago should have been terminated but were not because of social and religious pressure.
Probably many of us know of personal "horror stories" where women were told by pastors or family members to "submit" and "pray for a spouse" that should have been divorced or jailed (or should have been killed).