The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

It's as if it was overlooked in Paul's (non-exhaustive) listings of spiritual gifts in 1 Cor 12. It missed a worthwhile mention in Ephesians 4. But it's one of those supreme giftings in the church today. "Bro so-and-so can pray a fence post through." And then there he goes, laying hands on people turbo style while keeping tally ("number 5, he got it, number 5")!

I've yet to find a Scripture to show this special gifting to the church today -the exception being Acts 8:

14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into[c] the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Was this a special gifting that Simon wanted to purchase or are we jumping the gun and asking a question already deep into AssumptionVille? And what about the shoulder massages, tongues-encouraging (ironically, this passage is one of those that doesn't even mention tongues), jaw shaking, head rattling, screaming-in-the-ear tactic? The Apostles need a praying through class!

Was this normative? Or is this all in the flow of the Lukan account of His continued Gospel saying "when this thing broke out, everywhere we went, there was supernatural happening, the Spirit's affirming, declaring Jesus as the Way. Do we have a tendency to zone in on the supernatural, which was a following sign, and instead chase the supernatural?

Random thoughts for AFF this morning.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

There are several instances in the Book of Acts where people received a post salvation experience we usually call the HGB or Holy Ghost Baptism.

In Acts chapter 2, about one fourth of the early church were gathered together praying and the Holy Spirit came upon them. This would be 30 AD.

In Acts chapter 8, after a group of people got saved in Samaria, Peter and John laid hands upon them and the Holy Spirit came upon them. This was some time in the winter of 31/32 AD.

In Acts chapter 8 after the conversion of the Ethiopian Eunuch, after his baptism while he was still in the water the Spirit came upon him. This was some time after the Samaritan revival mentioned above.

In Acts chapter 9, three days after Paul's conversion, a disciple named Ananias came in and laid hands on him so that he might be filled with the Spirit. Saul's conversion date is traditionally set at January 25, AD 32 so his Holy Spirit Baptism would have been on January 28th.

In Acts chapter 10, while Peter preached to a group of Gentiles, when they heard the Gospel they believed it and suddenly the Holy Spirit was poured out upon them. This is thought to have happened in AD 38

In Acts 19 after the conversion and water baptism of about 12 men, Paul laid hands on them and the Holy Spirit came upon them. This is usually dated as October AD 53.

There are other stories of conversions in the Book of Acts but the Holy Ghost Baptism experience is not mentioned.

So, it seems that ordinarily some time after conversion there was a HGB experience and it was often ministered by the laying on of hands.

As far as speaking with tongues in Acts chapter 8, it does not mention the speaking with tongues and/or prophecy as it does in some other instances like Acts 2, 10, and 19. It seems (my opinion) that speaking with tongues did happen in Acts 8 at Samaria. Something happened that cause Simon to want to purchase the gift of laying on of hands. He had seen miracles and healings and great joy and didn't try to purchase that so we assume what he saw with the HGB was speaking with tongues. Something else in that chapter can also lead to that conclusion. In verses 20 and 21 Peter rebukes Simon and say "to hell with you and your money (literally "may your silver go to destruction with you") because you thought that you could purchase the gift of God with money." He then goes on to say, "You have no part in this matter." The word "matter" there is translated "utterance" in 1 Corinthians 1:5, so Peter may have said to him, "you have no part in this utterance." Based on these two points, it seems as though speaking with tongues did happen at Samaria.

However, the shaking, chin grabbing and repeating of nonsense syllables to "loosen the tongue" or "prime the pump" as practiced by some altar workers today is not the same as the laying on of hands in the Book of Acts.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

Or the "repeat after me" method... the scream in their ear and tongues and "teach them" method either. Seems to me we'd be much farther along if the 1st Century videotaped their gatherings.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

Some years back a young man named Verbal Bean was famous for "praying many through" to the Holy Ghost. From what I understand he used a made up word something like "Willadeau" that he had them repeat several times and then called it speaking with tongues.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

Sam you are close to blasphemy with any criticism against Verbal Bean. :)

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

From what you understand?

Do you have absolute proof of your accusation about Bro Verbal Bean?

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

Sam, that was Joe Duke who told people to say Waladeau. He would tell folks that was "Thank God" in french.

Br. Duke said that would "put that double lick" on ther tongue.

I personally witnessed this.

Now Br. Bean may have done this too, I don' know, as he was a contemorary of Joe Dukes.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

I may have confused Joe Duke and Verbal Bean.

If Elder Epley was still active on this forum he could set me straight on it. He has commented on it at least once on one of these forums.

I may have the wrong guy and may be falsely accusing him. I hope not. It was not intentional. I thought it was Verbal Bean.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

No, I do not.
That is my understanding.

I may have confused Joe Duke and Verbal Bean.

If Elder Epley was still active on this forum he could set me straight on it. He has commented on it at least once on one of these forums.

I may have the wrong guy and may be falsely accusing him. I hope not. It was not intentional. I thought it was Verbal Bean that did that.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

I have posted this about Joe Duke before and his "Waladuea" prayer.

Br Epley and have talked about it before.

Although Br. Epley has the best regards for Br. Joe Duke (now deceased)
Br. Epley does not agree with or endorse this practice.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

I have had three responses to this post questioning its accuracy.

Notice, I said, "From what I understand...." I do not have proof and, what's worse, I may have said this about Verbal Bean when it may have been Joe Duke. I thought I had heard that about Verbal Bean and I thought it had also been confirmed on one of these forums, BUT,
I may be wrong.

If anyone knows for sure that I am wrong about Verbal Bean in what I've said, please let me know. I know he was highly thought of among Conservatives. I have read three of his books: Prayer; The Works of the Holy Ghost; and Battlefield. I think that may be all that are available.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

How 'bout the types that PUSH on a person as they're laying hands on them
at the altar or somewhere in front?
So that they can SEEM to fall under the(ir) annointing?
To ME it reeks of "grandstanding" on the part of the one doing the 'layin on'.

It really makes no sense (spiritual sense that is) 4
It is GOD (not man or woman) whom gives the
increase, WHY? do some want to take the credit?
Plain ole common sense alone should be sufficient for even a mere sinner to "get it"
that its GOD alone whom gives of HIMself.
That only GOD is to get honor & glory is something that any spiritual person KNOWS
already., so why the attempt?
The only explanation, again..is EGO., the 'flesh' wants its gratificaton, its
moment in the sun, so to speak.
How sad.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

I've asked before but have never recieved an answer.Someone show me in

scripture an example of our pentecostal altar services.

No where was anyone ever "prayed thru" in the bible.

There was never any begging and groveling as we see in our altars.

No one ever prayed with an expectancy that they would speak in tongues.

No one ever got told that they "almost got it" , come back next week and try again.

No one ever had "stammering lips"

The erarly church we see in the book of Acts would probably just about puke if they ever witnessed what goes on in our altars.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

The closest is Acts 8, where they came to the Gentiles, laid their hands on them to receive the Spirit Baptism. This doesn't appear to be necessarily normative.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

Laying on of hands to minister the Holy Ghost Baptism is also found in

Acts 9 where Ananias came in and laid hands upon Saul

Acts 19 where the Apostle Paul laid hands on a group at Ephesus after they were baptized in water.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

You are assuming tongues or prophesying here Sam?

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

ok...they laid hands on them and they were filled with the spirrit and spoke in tongues.

I have never seen this in 40 years of pentecostal services.

I have seen people "lay hands" on people for over an hour and nothing resembling the Acts 8 account happened.

We shake them and hold up their arms and scream in their face. We dance and scream in their face and call this "working the altar"

Then we tell them they almost "got it" tonite and advise them that if they will clean themselves up some more, shave that mustache and take off your wedding ring maybe, just maybe b next Sunday night you'll finally be good enoughthat God will give you salvation.

Pray harder, pray harder, say Jesus Jesus JesusJESUSjesusjebus jebus jemas real fast...faster fastrerejflkjfiojerjjgrg;l

That's it ..now you got IT.

PLEASE..somebody find me this in the bible...BECAUSE that is the way we do it in PENTECOST today.

and that no more resembles the book of acts church than a catholc mass.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

Maybe we're in a New New Covenant? Things sure seem to work differently than they did in NT times. :hmmm

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

yes, assuming.

I can't say that the Bible teaches that everyone will speak with tongues when baptized in the Spirit, but it does seem to be the pattern.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

This is NOT the Scriptural pattern.
This is like the tail wagging the dog.
People are seeking a tongues experience and doing whatever it takes to result in "speaking with tongues."

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

When Eddie teaches on the Holy Ghost baptism, he then calls people to the front who want everything that God has for them. Then he tells them what is going to happen to them, when they ask God for the baptism of His Spirit. He explains about tongues and tells them not to be afraid. Then we do a prayer of repentance together, just to make sure everyone's hearts are clean. Then we ask for the Holy Spirit to come and fill those who are seeking.

Then the staff/prayer team goes around and lays hands on them and there are always a bunch of people who begin speaking in tongues, almost immediately. When you explain it in a logical manner and the people believe it, they are ready and it just happens so easily. We used to make it SO hard for people, and it's a gift that's easy to receive.

Once in a while, someone will fall out in the floor or some other kind of demonstration, but usually it's just standing there rejoicing in the love of God as they speak in a new language given by God. We don't tell them what to say or repeat. God gives them the utterance and it's beautiful!

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

I would love to see this happen, personally, in front of me.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

thus saith sherri..............move to jackson!

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

Jermyn--
we had four adults receive the Holy Ghost tonight, just like I told you above. There were about ten that came up for it, but four received it right away. We had "Surely the Presence" playing softly in the background - NO HYPE. It was just a very sweet move of God's Spirit.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

Things are happening tonight!

In the past few minutes

1- I read MOW's report here about 4 receiving the Holy Ghost Baptism after Bible Study.

2- I also read Eld. Mike Flemming's report on Facebook where he said
"Awesome, off the hook service tonight! 2 baptized, and 2 filled with the baptism of the Holy Spirit! Tomorrow night holds more of the same, revival is in the air!"

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

God is up to something! We had five from our Spanish service get the Holy Ghost this week too. Three in Spanish service Sunday night, and two teenage girls on the van on the way home from a youth trip on Saturday!!

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

In the van?

Wow, that sounds like the old story about Bro. Howard Goss and others receiving the Holy Ghost Baptism on the train.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

And HOW did it all get started to be like this anyway? I am rather "new"
to Pentecost., (12yrs) My experience(s) are wonderfully unique to me, and I certainly do NOT expect everyones to be the same, although I can say that I was very blessed and privileged to enter into HIS Kingdom at a pace that HE
had already laid out for me, that has been the BEST thing that ever happened to me..I wish that it could be such for every lost, hungry & thirsty
soul that treads this dark world., I often shudder to think that some poor
souls walking into a Pentecostal experience such as described above, will NOT
get what they came seeking.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

Awesome on all Counts! So glad to see the Spanish work flourishing.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

We had a guy from New York get the Holy Ghost on the subway on the way home from a service. Bet that freaked a few people out! We also had a lady in Nashville who left a service we were doing and had to pull off of I-65 because she started weeping and speaking in tongues. God can do it anywhere, I guess!!

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

...and I love it when God does it.

When we do it...it's no more than the emotionalism felt at a football game.

Recently an Elder at a large UPC told me in disgust, "They are just giving the Holy ghost away" at our church.

Explaning that at the faintest sound of a "tangled tongue" or bit a quivering lip, those around the seeker all shout you got it, you got it, thats it !!!!

Then that person is pronounced filled with the Spirit.

I'd venture to say there is more of this in our churches than people who spontanously receive the spirit and speak in tongues.

In the accounts of tongues in the book of Acts there was no altar service, no altar workers involved.

The Spirit came into the lives of those who heard and received the word and ALL spoke in tongues.

No one was expecting this to happen...it just happened...god made iot happen.

When we force it to happen we do not resemble the Apostolic church that we read of in Acts.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

Am I the only one that keeps thinking of the "Real Men of Genius" song everytime I see the thread title? Budweiser Salutes, The Pentecostal Pray-er Through-er".

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

Yep.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

But now that he mentioned it, yeah! Here's to you, Mister Pentecostal Prayer-Througher! :lol

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

Real Men of Genius?

Wow, look what I've been missing.

I don't ever remember seeing any of these before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsC3ni7A88M

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

Wouldn't the Acts account that I referenced, and those Sam mentioned be considered as their version of an "altar service?" I mean, how did the Apostles lay hands on them all, unless they probably all came and gathered in a common area.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

When the apostles laid hands on them they immediatly received the manifestion of tongues as an evidence of the Spirits indwelling.

When we lay hands on them we do it sometimes for hours, and then week after week without them recieving what we are trying to get them to receive.

We say the accounts in Acts are our model of what happens when a person receives the spirit.

I'm saying what goes on in many OP church altar service barely resembles what happened in the book of Acts accounts.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

Gotcha. I thought you were taking on the whole concept of people coming forward (aka altar service).

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

I have NP with ppl coming forward to an altar or praying in their pew.

I have no promblem if God wants to have folks talk in tongues and or prophesy as His spirit comes into their lives.


What really bother me is four or five folks praying around the repentant seeker.

Hollering shaking them, telling them to run or jump. Telling them to say Jesus over and over again, faster, harder.

Then more often than not, telling them they almost got the Holy Ghost.

Sorry...I can not buy this as any kind of sound doctrinal practice.

I might add, I am a "one stepper".

Maybe that explains where I am coming from.

Re: The Pentecostal "Prayer Througher"
 

I wore everyone out as I "sought" for the Holy Ghost for seven years. I had an aunt that prayed for 18 years before she got it - every time the altars were open, we went. I look back and cringe when I think about how I cried and begged God, made promises, etc. I had no real understanding of how to receive a gift. We were taught to "tarry" and that's not biblical at all.