Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

Feel free to jump in. Jeffery, D4T, Pelathias, anyone else who considers themselves "oneness".

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthrea...-is-NOT-a-Cult!

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

Well, I am "oneness" and don't consider myself to be in a cult. Of course I am also one to see very little difference between oneness and trinitarism outside of hairsplitting to the nth degree and endless arguments regarding terminology (much of which each side considers salvational).

Now I DO consider many individual church's to be VERY cultish based on the authority that the high exalted mystic ruler-of-them-all has assumed for himself and the sheep-like way his followers follow.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

I am Oneness and I do not feel I am in a cult....Shema...

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

Does anyone in a cult know they're in a cult? :hmmm

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

I have always been Oneness but I see that I probably agree more with Trinitarian theology than Oneness theology. Sure the term persons has been hard for me to get used to but I am not sure there is really much difference in the two views.

So I now accept that I am trinitarian. This was probably the last idea from the UPC that I had held on to these past few years.

I have already told my wife that I am trinitarian and my pastor so far so good.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

This is not surprising...

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

Haven't seen D4T around in a while.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

Can you explain to me what the Trinity is?

if there is not much difference in the two views how can you be a Trinitarian, not Oneness?

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

Prax, there is plenty of info out there on Trinitarian theology. It is Oneness theology I have a hard time finding a definition for. This is not something I have spent a lot of time thinking about or studying but it seems to me that within the Oneness movement it is hard to even find out what the basic Oneness thology is. Some say, Jesus is the Father, some say Jesus is the Son. Some say, Jesus came into existence when he was born some say he was just a man filled with the power of the Holy Ghost.

Growing up I was taught that God manifested himself in flesh and that he came and died on the cross and when you get the Holy Ghost you get Jesus' spirit inside of you. Am I going wrong here?

Honestly I lean more toward trinitarian views than Oneness. Another thing, I am not going to tell people I am Oneness because Christianity thinks Oneness doctrine is heresy. Other than this forum I don't associate with Oneness people anymore.


Prax, this is probably the scripture that really helped seal the deal and made me realize the beauty of the trinity. Here we have Jesus talking about how the Father has given him a bride and that Jesus, the Son, is doing the will of the Father. The Father sent his son to die in our place. He didn't send himself.


John 6:35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

I consider myself Oneness but I also believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. :)

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

NEWSFLASH!!! Most Oneness believers believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. :)

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

You are right,,,,,,,, Also I did not recognize you facing us preaching.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

Yeah, but it freaks some folks out to use the terms Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

Well, can someone explain what Oneness doctrine is as compared to Trinitarian doctrine and are there any accepted documents that summarize the Oneness position.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

Oneness don't make a cult, but a cult can be oneness as easily as anything else, and there are some oneness cults out there.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

semantics. lol

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

That is what I say. So why would I believe a position that everyone claims is a cult even if I don't believe that the Godhead difference is a big issue. Still, I think the trinitarian position is a little more biblical.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

If you truly want to know what Trinitarianism is, you really have to go back to the source...

Find an old time devout Roman Catholic, not a modern day one that believes in english spoken in Mass. Most modern day ones can't even begin to explain what the RCC really teaches about the Trinity.

There is a MAJOR difference between "Oneness" and the true doctrine of the trinity as it originated with the RCC.

Do you really think the RCC would label "Oneness" believers as HERETICS if there wasn't any significant difference in the beliefs?

As a delivered RC, it frightens me to think that people that once knew better would suddenly begin to embrace the trinity.

Its a salvational issue, not just semantics.

Sorry, I don't have the time to debate this topic. This is a hit and run. But there are plenty of resources out there. Including my own dad if you'd like to contact him. He'd be thrilled to talk to you about the trinity. He loves to debate it.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

In which ways and to what degree does it become an issue of salvation?

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

It's all very confusing. It's like there are differing ideas/levels of "oneness" and differing levels of "trinitarianism". I don't like to use either label, but I do NOT believe that there are three distinct personalities that have differing thought patterns and emotions. That, I think, is a truly tri-theistic idea. However, I do not believe that Jesus is the Father, so I guess that makes me non-oneness in some people's minds.

All I know is that I love Jesus and when I get to heaven, if there happens to be 3, I'm not going to be upset and ask to go to the other place!!!

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

Ever hear different "oneness professionals" get into a debate? You will think the sky is purple and the oceans are pink and that one plus one equals 5 within no time. And then to think that SOME of these people put salvational status on proper oneness understanding is even more incredible.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

This is what I was going to ask, because even in Oneness circles, there are so many varying explanations of the "godhead". Which one do I have to believe to be saved?

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

As far as I understand... a "person of the Trinity" and a "manifestation of God" is very similar in terminology, except Trinitarians believe that each "person" or "manifestation" of God is a different "being", and these three "beings" are the make up of the Godhead.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

No Oneness is not a cult as pertaining to the Godhead. It teaches there is only one who is YHWH and that Jesus is YHWH. This is the Bible position. If Trins held this they would not be calling Oneness a cult.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

Oddly enough my view of the godhead is the one thing that didn't change way back in 1987 when I went Pentecostal from the quasi-catholic, quasi-agnostic state.

I wasn't quite sure I believed in any god at all, but if I was going to, Jesus was leading the alternatives by a mile.

I am not that sure that many folks in Christianity today outside of catholic theologians believe the Athanasian creed as it is written as that is tritheistic in the extreme, yet the word "trinity" is a 1700 year old buzzword that folks still use because they don't know another. So in some cases, in many even, it does in fact boil down to semantics.

Bottom line is that Jesus is the express image of God, he was, and is, God manifested in the flesh. He is the only God we can see, visualize and grab ahold of. The scriptures are clear that Jesus is the ONLY vehicle through which salvation is obtainable.

When I pray, I have yet to ask the Father for a single thing... I talk to the one to whom all power is given. When I have a need, I have yet to call on the Holy Ghost, though I know that the Holy Ghost is in me, which is the Spirit of Christ, I talk to Jesus.

I do not see three separate co-equal beings running the show, just one single God manifested to us as Jesus Christ.

The fullness of God? We haven't begun to even scratch the surface of God's creation, and we are going to wrap our heads around the creator? what based on the observations and meditations of some centuries dead scholasr? Especially scholars who were empire-building using the vehicle of religion (Catholicism)? Not thinking so.

Jesus Christ is how God himself presented himself to us, gave us what we need to know to be saved, taught us his ways, gave us his word, sent his messengers forth, gave us his spirit. What more are we looking for?

The word says that in him dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily? How much more oneness can we get than that.

Sorry. No bonus offer attached to that. Jesus is it. Or hey, maybe there is... buy Jesus, get the Father and the Holy Ghost free, but the Father and the Holy Ghost can't be had without the Jesus offer.

I'm not a theologian. No desire to be. Don't know greek... no desire to learn it.

But I do know that God is able to show himself to me...and he showed me that I have access to everything he is through ONE Jesus.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

Why not? Do you not believe what Jesus said? Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

And what about Paul???....

“For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,” Ephesians 3:14, KJV.

“Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.” Philippians 4:20, KJV.

“Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:” Colossians 1:12, KJV.

Just a few examples of praying to the father....

Just BeenThinkin

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

I would assume most of us here consider ourselves "oneness" but there sure is are a lot of differences in the way we explain our beliefs. It is my opinion that there is no single doctrine of "oneness" and there is no single doctrine of "trinity" --just a lot of words and terms trying to explain and clarify a God that is beyond our comprehension and an attempt to fit Him into our doctrinal mold.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

No contradiction. When I give thanks to Jesus, I give thanks to the Father.
WHEN i bow knee to the Lord Jesus, I bow to the Father. Because in Jesus the fullness of the godhead dwells.

Bow and pray to a tri-theon? not gonna happen... ever.
I worship the one God of Israel, The I am that I am. His name is Jesus. You see anything else, you BeenThinkin too much.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

Jesus is the mediator between God and men. We must come to the Father through him. If we have known or seen him we have known or seen the Father.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

It's my experience that Trinitarians do not all agree on the same thing and many Trinitarians don't understand their own doctrine, that is why I asked.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

No they are entirely 2 different things.

A Person is manifested (manifest means revealed).

They do not believe three persons have three manifestations., They believe each is simply a person, an individual self.

Oneness teaches one Person has three manifestations of Himself

Also they do NOT believe each manifestation is God in a different being.

They believe God is one BEING that is tripersonal

To say three beings is to espouse tritheism. Trinitarianism on paper teaches one being

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/trinoneness.htm

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/ugstsymposium.htm

There are tons of other articles, particularly that would explain the verse you posted as it relates to Oneness.,

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

This is a strange thing to say, Sherri. Are you saying that you don't really know? Isaiah 9:6 is pretty plain.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

I don't understand your explanation. You say one minute you're not, never have, prayed to the Father, then say you did when you prayed to Jesus.

What's wrong with what Jesus said?

Matthew 6:9* ¶ After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10* Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11* Give us this day our daily bread.
12* And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13* And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

According to you He should have said, Matthew 6:9* ¶ After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Jesus which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10* Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11* Give us this day our daily bread.
12* And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13* And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Still Thinkin

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

I thought I had a pretty good understanding of "oneness" but reading some of the arguments back and forth among "oneness" folks here on this forum, the way they speak to one another, the way they put one another down, the terms and words used, I wonder if there is such a thing as a "oneness" doctrine. Does each of us have our own private "oneness" doctrine?

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

This is a quote by Daniel Segraves from his blog. It is dated January 20, 2009.

Daniel Segraves is Assistant Professor of Biblical Theology at Urshan Graduate School of Theology (Florissant, MO) and Professor Emeritus at Christian Life College (Stockton, CA). He is a minister with the United Pentecostal Church.

The word "person" has changed its meaning since the third century when it began to be used in connection with the "threefoldness of God". When we talk about God as a person, we naturally think of God as being one person. But theologians such as Tertullian, writing in the third century, used the word "person" with a different meaning. The word "person" originally derives from the Latin word "persona", meaning an actor's face-mask- and, by extension, the role which he takes in a play.

By stating that there were three persons but only one God, Tertullian was asserting that all three major roles in the great drama of human redemption are played by the one and the same God. The three great roles in this drama are all played by the same actor: God. Each of these roles may reveal God in a somewhat different way, but it is the same God in every case. So when we talk about God as one person, we mean one person in the modern sense of the word, and when we talk about God as three persons, we mean three persons in the ancient sense of the word...Confusing two senses of the word "person" inevitably leads to the idea that God is actually a committee..

This is part of a blog titled Oneness-Trinitarian Pentecostal Dialogue which can be found at
http://danielsegraves.blogspot.com/2...ntecostal.html

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

Most excellent!

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

3?!
:smack

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

Thank you.

Re: Oneness is NOT a cult!
 

In the 4th century they used the word hypostasis, which means substance or foundation, that which lies beneath.