Update Concerning IHOP
 

I dont know when this started but tonight Wes Hall one of the leaders said you must be baptized in water in order to be born again. This is tremendous! Not sure where this is leading to or where it will end. They seem to be teaching one is "saved" by faith but not born again till experiencing the birth of water and spirit.

Very interesting.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

when? where?

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Try here

http://www.ihop.org/Publisher/Articl...?ID=1000058181

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Love to see them update their site, Mike with this new Oneness view of the Godhead and baptism:

We believe that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. No ordinance, ritual, work or any other activity on the part of man is required or accepted in order to be saved. This saving grace of God, through the power of the Holy Spirit, also sanctifies us by enabling us to do what is pleasing in God's sight in order that we might be progressively conformed to the image of Christ. (Jn. 1:12–13, 6:37–44, 10:25–30; Acts 16:30–31; Rom. 3:1–4:23, 8:1–17, 31–39, 10:8–10; Eph. 2:8–10; Phil. 2:12–13; Titus 3:3–7; 1 Jn. 1:7, 9)..We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ baptizes believers in the Holy Spirit, in whom we are also sealed for the day of redemption. The Holy Spirit regenerates, forever indwells, and graciously equips the Christian for godly living and service. Subsequent to conversion, the Spirit desires to fill, empower, and anoint believers for ministry and witness. We also believe that signs and wonders, as well as all the gifts of the Spirit described in the New Testament, are operative today and are designed to testify to the presence of the kingdom and to empower and edify the Church to fulfill its calling and mission. (Mt. 3:11; Jn. 1:12–13, 3:1–15; Acts 4:29–30; Rom. 8:9, 12:3–8; 1 Cor. 12:12–13; 2 Cor. 1:21–22; Gal. 3:1–5; Eph. 1:13–14, 5:18)..We believe that the one true God exists eternally in three persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—and that these, being one God, are equal in deity, power, and glory. We believe that God not only created the world but also now upholds, sustains, governs, and providentially directs all that exists and that He will bring all things to their proper consummation in Christ Jesus to the glory of His name.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Did I say they changed their Godhead view? No. But watch whats happening there. I would not be surprised and of course I am praying that they will change. They are speaking some things that show a growth in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

This isn't anything new. I've been keeping up with IHOP for the last few months and have heard them preach Acts 2:38 a few times. From what I understand, they believe that baptism in both water and the Holy Spirit is available and something that every believer should seek, but not necessary for salvation. I side with them there, for the most part.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Live link BTW

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Tonight Wes said unless one is baptized they are not born again. That is new to me after watching for some time now.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

I like the website layout...to many images though.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Are you able to see the live meeting through the link? Wonderful praise and worship going on.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

IHOP International House Of Pancakes?????:toofunny

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

i've seen it before. Im at church right now with a slow connection

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

International House Of Prayer

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Will listen to the archive , Mike. However, there isn't a mainline Christian who doesn't think a born again Christian will not necessarily initiate his conversion with baptism. That is distinct from the notion that we are must be water baptized in order to obtain and effectuate the New Birth.

Based on their belief statement I would be surprised that the latter has been expressed tonite but will take a listen.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Go for it!

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

That's very interesting. I'll have to do some research, although I'm pretty sure that their ministry as a whole is still firmly one stepper.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Ok dont get me wrong Im trying to be very precise. He said one is saved (assumedly at faith) but they are not born again until they are baptized in water.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

I really, really want to watch it but I can't! Too close to the Brownsville/Toronto stuff.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

I dont know. Generally it has really been in good order since I have been watching the last 10 weeks. I have not noticed ANY of the so called "Apostolic Prophetic" leaders at these meetings. As a matter of fact for some reason even Mike Bickle is rarely seen there.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Or is that the Torontosville Brown stuff?

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

I have some of the praise and worship music and there is a guy praying about, "opening their eyes", and "revealing the truth of who You are". For what it's worth, he sounded very Apostolic in the manner that he prayed and in the words he used.

There is/are former Apostolic(s) in this organization, in a place of influence, imo.


I have visited the IHOP in my area and plan to go back again.

However, I have heard that the services at my local IHOP are a bit out of balance. The lady I was speaking with left because they did not really attempt to evangelize the lost folks around them.

That is what she said. I don't have my own opinion on this.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

I watched a bit on their live feed last night. Not sure what they were doing ... there was soft music and prayer, but the prayer/worship leader and singers were sing chanting what sounded like "tongues."

I've heard a lot of speaking in tongues in my years, but I've never heard 4 people saying exactly the same words at the same time in music form ... as though it was previously rehearsed and memorized.

I think it's a good thing to have places of prayer like that, but the sing-chant didn't feel right and turned me completely off to what was happening.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

And yet to me it was beautiful. Many tongues sound alike. What they were doing was worshipping the Lord, praying for people to be healed and baptizing people into Jesus Christ.

I was particularly struck by the fact that the Minister said something like if one is not baptized in water they are not yet born again. For a Charismatic Church I feel this is going in the right direction.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

I would think up another acronym if I were them.
I haven't watched the video but from what I have heard, I ain't missing much.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Mike when was this statement made in last night's archive... was this during the water baptisms or during healing testimonies last night.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Starting a few minutes before the baptism. Several statements were made along that time line. I cant get the archives to work today.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Oh Im sure many people would find nothing to rejoice about with them. My thinking is when I see a group of people strongly committed to Christ who are about loving the Lord our God with the heart, soul, mind and strength and they are moving toward more truth Im impressed.

When I first saw Misty Edwards on Youtube a year and a half ago and the absolute discipleship she presented it was a real thrill to me. Talking about hours of prayer. Days of fasting. A life of outreach.

Im talking mostly young people here. Taking the sermon on the mount seriously. Teaching strong though non legalistic holiness. All this saturated in possibly the most wonderful worship atmosphere I have ever seen.

But no its not for everyone.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

I saw this group the other day on GodTV and there was a speaker who sounded very much like the UPC concerning baptism. He kept saying this pertaining to how baptism will be like being born again and that if you really wanted the miraculous water baptism would open up mighty things in your life.

They were making a big deal out of water baptism. I just assumed it was another one of the charismatic bandwagons these types seem to get caught up in.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Water baptism is one bandwagon the Charismatic movement has never caught on to. Sure most of them say you SHOULD be baptized. But Im only aware of a precious few that would link water baptism to the new birth.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

I agree. And though I didn't here him say new birth he seemed awful close to linking salvation with baptism.

I honestly enjoyed the prayer room video and listened to it for a while. Looks like a great idea and some of the prayers were great prayers.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Ah, i thought this thread was about IHOP changing their menu or something.:ursofunny

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

May be I'm missing something here...They are saying you are saved "by faith", but not "born again" until you are baptized? That doesn't make any sense.
My understanding is that Jesus said you aren't saved unless you are born again. What's missing here?

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

What it represents is (hopefully) this. A group who first believes baptism has no part in being born again or being saved. Now they are beginning to change their beliefs. First baptism has no purpose. Afterwards its a part of the new birth. Thats good.

Its not fully accurate yet but its going in the right direction.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Wait, back up. "Baptism has no purpose"? Who said that? When?

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

I still don't understand how a logical analysis of this would not obviously appear to be contradictory nonsense. It's almost like being spiritually bi-polar.:) (not what you are saying M, what they are saying)

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

As long as I've been listening, IHOP has STRONGLY preached baptism. It's just never been linked with salvation. I'll check out the archives to see what he said, though.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Yeah, I've not heard IHOP discount the importance of baptism EVER. Everything I've heard emphasizes the importance of baptism.

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Where are the pancakes?

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

No lie, I text the URL to a friend in church because I like the design and we are wanting to redesign our website....I guess he never checked it out because he thought it was the pancake place

Re: Update Concerning IHOP
 

Yes folks but important as to WHAT?

If baptism is merely a "testimony to others" it has no part in your salvation neither new birth. Whats important about it then? Scripture itself gives descriptions of WHY to baptize. A "testimony" is not one of them.

But I prefer not to take this thread into a debate about it. I have started it to update what is going on there. A few people here may take interest in that.