PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

In the end, this HMH stuff ain't about studying the Word, symposiums, convictions, is it?

Maybe it's just about $$$$$$$$$ and the the printings of books like Power Before the Throne, that according to Ruth Harvey ... sold at least 20,000 copies within the first 6 weeks ... now in its 8th or 9th printing ... even in Spanish.

That this book provided for her very livilihood after her divorce and has meant $$$ for the failing PPH in sorely needed revenue .... is no fairy tale.


http://www.alc1.org/audio/2008/112208d.mp3
Hear from 30 - 50 minute marks.

While men like David Bernard speak at the same Holiness conference in Wisconsin .... and write that these hair layings are just "focusing of faith" months later .... giving it all a "free pass".

http://wisconsindistrictnews.org/wp-...ness05blog.jpg

http://wisconsindistrictnews.org/wp-...ness03blog.jpg

http://wisconsindistrictnews.org/wp-...ness02blog.jpg

As Reider says in regards to makeup, "follow the money trail"???!!!!

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

Have you called these folks to correct them??

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

I have contacted Elder Bernard, and the then GS, via email on various ocassions ... getting this response only:
http://holymagichair.com/wordpress/?p=25

Jim Yohe, once tried to contact Ruth Reider about her book and got this response:

http://holymagichair.com/wordpress/?p=197

If she did not respond 8 years ago in the center of the controversy about her book to a fellow peer, I think it's safe she won't now.


Any other snide questions?

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

I was just wondering since you publically question thier integrety.

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

Good thing they were contacted first, huh? :nah

Thanks for sharing.

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

FTR, let's let the readers decide:

http://wisconsindistrictnews.org/200...-consecration/

Sermons on holiness by Bernard and Reider at the conference:
http://www.alc1.org/sermons/2008.htm

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

I agree with you about the HMH stuff, just SEEMS your consumed by it, that and UPC issues.

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

Respectfully .... Don't read it. :)

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

Well, they misspelled "Barnard"

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

Dan, you're sinking to new lows.

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

I don't quite see the "money trail" as being that big of a deal. Fact of the matter is, 20,000 paperbacks through the PPH won't bring in that much of an income over the years. I wouldn't tear up the checks when they came in, but I'd certainly be open to "prospects" if I was woman living alone. I guess that may in part explain why the change was made from RR to RH. Dunno, but you can't blame a girl.

I think RH really does believe this stuff - in spite of the fact that it appears to have failed to provide the "protection" for her home that she claims it will do for others.

I also don't think the original post is a "low" either. RH has made remarkable and even outlandish claims and has failed to provide Scriptural support for her claims. That she might receive some scrutiny isn't that remarkable.

What we're seeing is the struggling gasps of a dying way of life. This whole "Identity" with it's "look" was sold to our parents (or grand parents if you aren't as old as I am) with the promise that it was all a part of "End Time Revival."

Well, no "revival." And we've had to do a lot of rethinking about the "End Time" as well. But hey! These are the "old paths" - right?

Nope - remember? They were just sold to our parents. Flip through your family albums again. Something that was a novelty to them certainly isn't all that "old."

Have they ever told us the truth about anything?

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

This is so very true! It is dying- many are in denial of this.

I think it is harder for the older generation the whole identity thing is so much apart of who they are and how they think. How could things be any other way for them.

I think of that book "Who moved my cheese", gives an example of what happens in the work place, by can be applied here as well.

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

According to Reider in her message it was about 20,000 in the first 6 weeks. Will try to get exact quote and numbers.

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

Pel, keeping in mind that in PBT, Ruth attributes a women cutting her hair on the mission field ... to her husband leaving her ...

In this 2008 recording, she gets into some details about her divorce and how she was on the floor, if memory serves, contemplating whacking her hair off and breaking her covenant with God, while the deal with her former husband was finalizing, and she didn't .. SHE RESISTED. She then tells how God provided a miraculous 1% inheritance so she could get it published and through her keeping her covenant .... God made provision for her and her girls through the sale of her book.

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

Really? Proposing that cetain individuals like EN Bell to TD Jakes have political and financial gain not to leave false doctrine or to abandon the truth has been a staple argument of many to why the Oneness movement is as marginal as it is.

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

T D Jakes is into false doctrine? What, did he put in an order for some PBT HMH?

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

I don't think it is wrong to have financial gain in ones life, either by writing a book or selling audio material.

But when that finical gain is linked to something so outrageous as HMH- that is very concerning.

I think propagating the HMH only marginalizes the oneness movement even further.

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

Reider's rise to promininence is saddled on PBT, Liz .... it has made her one of the most sought out women speakers in the movement ...
She is a holiness guru in the eyes of many.

Also tally the honorariums for teaching this doctrinal niche she has made for herself ... and she has done well to supplement her earnings ..... no doubt.

That's just the realities that are coupled with this ideological stand.

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

So, many OPs say.

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

I used to dislike Thomas Dexter with a passion! I considered him a sell-out. Then one day (sometime last year) I was disecting or discussing Jakes with my best friend. (he is a Jakes fan, whatev). AND it hit me... I got very quiet while I entertained the thought that... maybe, just maybe Jakes version of "Apostolic" roots where similar to the PCI. Today, while not a fan- I don't dislike him.

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

Correction by the 3rd printing of PBT .. Reider states that she had sold close to 20,000 books

... by resisting the cutting hair attack .. her obedience in this matter was the seed to this book and the others .... God was providing a means of provision for her and her kids.... and the church her former husband pastored would have been destroyed had she cut it.

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

Oh like Calvinists and Antinomian groups and baptists, Mormons, JW's etc... who spew crazy doctrine?

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

While I believe RR / RH is terribly misguided and teaching heresay I do not believe she is doing so for money.

I believe that she believes what she teaches.

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

I think she actually does believe it even though it did not work for her.

Re: PBT and R. Harvey: Follow the Money Trail?
 

I guess you are right with all those crazy doctrines spewing all over the place what's one more erroneous teaching going to hurt?

Just goes to show that those who think they have all truth might be lacking in some areas.