Whatsoever you bind?
 

I would be interested in the thought's of pastors and ministers on the following scriptures.



Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Re: Whatsoever you bind?
 

This ought to be interesting.
We're all over the map on that and Matthew 16:19

Re: Whatsoever you bind?
 

Matt 18 actually gives the answer. Keep reading:

Mat 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

Mat 18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.

Binding and loosing a person is forgiving a person or not forgiving a person. Literally, it means requiring something or not requiring it.

Jesus gave us that much authority that when two or three of us make a decision on a person's state, being forgiven or not, due to the reaction of requiring one to repent, that it is as though Jesus made the decision. That is what it means for two or three to gather in his name and see Him in their midst. It does not mean if only two show up for church Jesus is there.

Re: Whatsoever you bind?
 

forgiveness is the trademark of a christian...

Re: Whatsoever you bind?
 

Re: Whatsoever you bind?
 

Re: Whatsoever you bind?
 

I see this as relating to church discipline. For example if a brother is caught in a sin the church might have him bound from participating in choir, Sunday School, ushering, leadership, etc. However, the church holds the authority to loose the man upon demonstration of remorse and use him again. Whatever the church binds in the way of disciplinary action is bound in Heaven.

Re: Whatsoever you bind?
 

How many people have to gather for it to be church?

Re: Whatsoever you bind?
 

More than three, I would say. :) But I suspect it is talking about the elders of the church being together. Not in a congregation with any Tom, Dick or Harry attending.

Re: Whatsoever you bind?
 

The forgiveness I spoke about, and what Jesus meant. was loosing one from prison. If the person has not repented, then THAT forgiveness has not occurred.

Re: Whatsoever you bind?
 

In the parable, both "sinners" repented. It was the offended ones who responded differently. And the unforgiving one was punished. So, how exactly does this "explain" the loosed/bound in heaven/earth thing, again? I'm confused.

Re: Whatsoever you bind?
 

God forbid that God honors a gathering of two or more sincere believers gathering in the name of Jesus. ;)

Bro. Blume, early Christianity wasn’t anything like it is today in our modern system of institutionalized church. By and large the majority of Christians (especially Gentiles) gathered in smaller gatherings that were held in their homes. The meetings weren’t anything like our “Sunday Show” services with a single preaching presenting an Aristotelian monologue. Their meetings typically were comprised of the Lord’s Supper (a full meal) and a time of fellowship that included the sharing of Scripture, discussion, singing, and the use of spiritual gifts. The “elders” were simply the more spiritually mature brethren who led and guided as fathers…not lords over the Lord’s heritage. In each gathering if the spiritual gifts of utterance in tongues or prophesy was employed there had to be a minimum of two or at most three present using the gift. Please note, Paul instructed that if anything be revealed to anyone sitting by during these secessions where prophesy and teaching were present the fist speaker (one of the two or three elders) should hold his peace and allow that Tom, Dick, or Harry to speak. Paul said that this was so that all might prophesy. Yes, all in a NT church gathering were permitted to prophesy. The elders were present to guide, rebuke (if necessary), and deliver doctrinal teaching. Also they took up free will offerings to sustain the needs of the ministry and to relief the poor and the widows among them. They didn’t tithe. Besides, tithing wasn’t required of tradesmen, only land owners who had crops and flocks. And where would the early church keep all that grain and all those animals? The Jews had a “storehouse” in the Temple for these things… the church didn’t have a storehouse; again, they met in homes. They shared their lives and their possessions. It was truly a brotherhood of believers who lived together and who grew so much like a family that they were willing to die together. Church was a vibrant free flowing meeting that didn’t take very many people or a handful of skilled professionals to pull off. And it spread through Rome like wildfire.

Today our meetings are corporate. We have our elaborate cathedrals and our trained and tailored CEOs behind the pulpit. These men are trained in the arts of Aristotelian rhetoric and don’t even know it. Instead of winning and teaching through dialogue and growth, they seek to win the lost and teach the flock through a sermonal monologue where no other is permitted to prophesy as Paul taught the Apostolic church. Multiplied billions of dollars are pumped into religious organizations every year with over 80% going to sustain nothing but brick and mortar. Churches are in competition for “members” like the own them because members mean money. With all the pomp and religious pride the lost want nothing to do with a Jesus represented by such a corrupted system. Even believers are leaving these traditional churches in droves because they are left spiritual stagnate, hurt, abused, and extorted. The church systems of today are simply described as John put it, a harlot.

The ENTIRE church… from the Vatican to Hazelwood Missouri needs to REPENT.

Give me a simple meeting in the living room of Tom’s house, with Dick and Harry attending with our wives bringing the covered dishes. Let the loaf of bread be broken, the wine poured, that Christ might be remembered. May the Scriptures be opened and the power and giftings of God flow through all who are present as we build one another up in our most holy faith. Let tears flow with confession and brotherly love be shown as we weep with those who weep and rejoice with those who rejoice. Let us win as many lost as possible, teaching them how to open their homes and be used of God. Let us multiply gatherings… not members. Let us not divide according to denominational lines, let every man seek Christ Jesus.

Now that’s church.

I had met at Heavenly Grounds, a local café with a hand full of believers. There were maybe five of us and we talked until the placed closed. They allowed us to continue talking until the employees were done cleaning and they had to go. We then proceeded down in a bar and restaurant called Harrisons. There we got a table and continued talking with our Bibles and sharing truths of Scripture until well after 2AM. It was truly beautiful.