Speaking of which...TRANSGENDERED?
 

Anyone seen the new thing...now that the homosexual agenda is firmly planted in our society, 20/20 is now bringing a program tonight on transgendered children. Shall we accept yet another form of propaganda which takes what God has created, both male and female, and have the audacity to say that God had a genetic mistake when he made us?

I feel, at times, that I was born into the twilight zone...Come Quickly Lord Jesus!:preach

Unlike Brad who thinks I am judgemental...I know what the scripture says to be sin and it don't matter what we think or feel...NO SIN will enter heaven. And as the scripture declares...many of those who call him Lord will not enter, and he will say, "Depart from me I never knew you".

Rhoni

I personally think all this is a sign of the times and those of us who have the truth need to be well able to defend it and stand for it no matter what the cost.

Sincerely, Rhoni

Rhoni, what do you mean by 'transgendered' and what is the propaganda that 20/20 is putting forth?

I hate to get involved in yet another forum but I will say this. Even I do not completely understand the transgendered issue. There is a part of me that struggles with wrapping my brain around it to be quite honest. I suppose the fact that I have not experienced this kind of feeling means that I likely will never truly understand it.

I think my main problem with the transgendered issue is the fact that it usually leads to mutilation of the individuals genitals via sex reassignment surgery. Something about that seems beyond what God would want His children to go through. On the other hand, I have been homosexual since as far back as I can remember and get extremely frustrated when people suggest that it's a choice and judge me out of fear or lack of understanding.

It is for this reason that I am open to at least hearing what the transgendered community has to say about their "disorder." Part of me thinks that it is an extreme reaction to an underlying homosexual orientation and that with proper therapy the transgendered individual could learn to live as they are with the genitalia they were born with. I'll have to try and catch the 20/20 episode tonight.

I would like to respond to Rhoni’s comment about this being some kind of homosexual agenda. I can tell you as an open homosexual who is very much involved with both the political and religious aspects surrounding homosexuality that the “homosexuality community” is not conspiring against the straight community in any way shape or form. The community certainly is not creating this sort of transgendered issue with children as some sort of evil conspiracy.

The boys who although physically they are male think they are female inside, and vica versa. The soaps and the talk shows are becoming inundated with this. People are going through sex change operations to become a different sex than what they were born.

What amazes me about this is that your fellow "mental health professionals" seem to think that the only way to correct this disorder is to change the body to match the disordered thinking. What about changing the disordered thinking?

I think you misread my post...let me post it again...

While like the homosexual community in that it has an agenda...it is separate from it. The funniest thing I have heard yet is that on the soap, "All My Children", There is a transgendered person Freddie, born male who is also a rock star named Zarf, who is really a Zoe [female] inside but is also a Lesbian because he likes girls but is really a girl with male genitalia.:hypercoffee Perfectly ridiculous that anyone would even buy into such trash. And now Diane Sawyer will give genetic examples of pre-adolescent children who think they were born in the wrong bodies...

I know of no such mental health professionals but I do believe you. It was lobbied to remove homosexuality from the DMS-IV, now this will probably be added and then subtracted also...makes me want to change professions, almost...:hypercoffee

Rhoni, a "Transgender" wanted to be Prom King in Fresno last week.

Seems that after she lost, suddenly she wanted to use side entrances and NOT talk to the cameras.

Another way for tearing down something in our society to make it common and so questioned and thus, acceptable within 30 years.

Exactly my point BOOMM...we are living in perilous days.:preach

Ok, I thought you were referring to hermaphrodites or something of that nature.

Just to correct you. I am a senior in the psychology program at Andrews University and I have not met one professor yet (most of which are clinical psychologists) who advocates changing the body. The whole of psychology does not embrace sex reassignment surgery. Just to let you know :)

Any of the psychologists I've known, and the few mental health records I've read of transgendered people, have always steered the person toward the goal of sex reassignment surgery.

I as a medical professional have seen the result of such an action on many occassions.

Amen and amen. Thank God we will be out of this world one day and remain in eternity -- much longer than we were ever in it.

you heard about that! ridiculous!! :girlnails

Maybe it was not a conscious choice, but that does not make it "natural" or genetic. Perhaps it was a passive choice influenced by other environmental factors. But the issue really is what the word of God says on the issue and that we should shape our lives to conform to it and nit vice versa...I am sure you would agree with that.


Just because you are not involved in any conspiracy or that you do not see it does not mean it does not exist.

It doesn't have to be called a conspiracy to believe or see that gays are openly trying to change the views, politics, religious beliefs and practices of our traditional family society

Is that possible with those that believe they are homosexual to learn to live as a heterosexual?

I remember it like it was yesterday..
 

I know it must be very difficult for many to understand how a person becomes so confused with their gender that they would take steps to alter their physical bodies to resemble the opposite sex.

I've met many transgendered people both female to male and male to female and I can't feel anything but sympathy for them. The utter torment that they must experience and the darkest of all deceptions that rule their lives should make us all pray for these individuals.

Do you know that the male to female transgendered people have the highest rate of HIV? That fact is greatly unreported due to the stigma not only from heterosexuals but even gays and lesbians. The possibility of gaining employment becomes difficult and many that would want to work a legitimate job resort to prostitution to survive.

There life span has become even shorter than a male homosexual and the thought of these tortured souls having to spend eternity in hell after experiencing hell on earth is so tragic. I know that Jesus loves these people and I hope that we could see beyond what we can't comprehend and love them as he does.

Many years ago, a friend was giving a male to female transgendered person a bible study and that person was so moved by the message of salvation and Christ's love for "her". That person wept and was ready to be baptized, but didn't go because she realized that she would have to lose this person she became and except the male person that she was born.

Such a sad story for you see she had gone so far in her transformation that even my friend stated that it would be very difficult for her to be excepted in our churches.

Satan is a liar and we must demonstrate that God's grace and mercy isn't exclusive of any segment of our society. The more we state that there is no hope for people that are different (transgendered, lesbian, gay) the more we are guilty of contributing to their fate.

Many blessings to you.

Dear Chosenbyone,

All of us caught in the lies of satan are tormented. Whether they be adulterers, fornicators, pedophiles, homosexuals, transgendered, those caught in the spirt that promotes being a peeping Tom, lust, pornography, addictions of any kind; alcoholism, substance abuse, gambling, sexual addictions, ect...

When struggling with any of these or similar sins/addictions we are confused, wonder what is really us...the us of what others have told us we are, the us of what we think we are, or the us of who satan tells us we are, or the truth in who Jesus says we are!

I do think we need to show mercy, grace, and compassion, but we also need to be truthful to people...they can be free from the lies satan tells them. They do not have to be bound by the addictions they have acquired whether from their own poor choices, the abuse done to them by others, or the transgenerational sins of the family.

Calling sin to be sin is not judgemental, but saying there is no hope and condemning people to a life without Christ and his transforming power is. I am so glad that the things that have happened to others, such as; physical, mental, or sexual abuse did not happen to me...not that I haven't had my own issues and demons to torment me.

The example you gave about a transgendered person afraid to be baptized because they would lose themselves is just what we all do when we are baptized...we die to ourselves, our will, and agree to give our life over to Christ and His will. It does take a sensitive and compassionate person to address this in a way that the person struggling will understand that we all struggle with the same things, only others to a greater extent.

I fight constantly with the side of myself that is strong and independent and have to force myself to submit to God's will. Not because I don't want it but because I hate to feel helpless or out of control or like I am giving up my identity. Trust is difficult for me...I have been hurt, had to survive against all odds, and to just fall into anyone's hands, and yes...sometimes I don't even realize how arrogant I am to think I can control things better than Christ can do for myself. When I have to wait, trust without questioning, not knowing where my next footstep will be placed...I am scared...you might say terrified and sometimes find it easier to go back to what I know and even the bondage I have been delivered from because it is comfortable..a.t least I know what to expect.

The transgendered, the homosexual, and those bound by other confusing and hell-driven addictions are not any more confused or scared than the rest of us. Instead of looking at what we perceive to be vast differences between us...we need to look at the truth of the commonalities we all face. Christ came to break the curse...we either believe it and give our lives to accepting and "Letting" God change us or we fight inwardly as well as outwardly our whole lives not really believing in anything...hopeless if you would.

In summary, we all struggle with different variences of the same issues...and we either believe Christ and his transforming power and 'let' it happen with us, or we don't believe, and die a most miserable death as we have lived in life. This is the saddest condition of all.

In God's Grip [most of the time],
Rhoni

Hello, Rhoni -

I know that we've all struggle with a wide variety of issues/sins and I'm thankful that Christ transformed and delivered many through his power.

I don't want to give the impression that I am unable to recognize and appreciate those that have struggled with issues/sins other than homosexuality or transgendered confusion and were set free from those chains of bondage.

There just seemed to be a trend where people that struggled with other sins were shown much more compassion and patience than the aforementioned sins I listed.

I remember once that a young lady (late twenties) had a remarkable testimony of deliverance from her particular struggle which was lesbianism. She became quite a prayer warrior and felt that she wanted to share her full testimony with the church.

She approached the pastor and expressed her desire and assured him that she would forward the copy of the testimony she wanted to give for his review.

She wrote a beautiful well written account of what God did in her life and submitted it as she promised. The pastor was a good man and handled the situation with love when he asked her to remove any mention of her involvement with homosexuality.

He felt that the congregation wouldn't be very receptive and some sins were meant to leave under the blood. She was perplexed and disappointed but obedient and deleted any mention of her deliverance from that particular sin.

I couldn't help but wonder if she had been able to share her story, perhaps some young girl who needed that example of grace would have had the faith to know that she could be delivered too. There actually was a young girl from that church who now has turned her back on God and has became steeped in that sin.

I'm not claiming that it would have prevented her from straying, but there would be no way of knowing that today.

Below was a post I posted earlier this week, where I mentioned that the Lord delivers from many sins and I'm so thankful that he does.

God bless you.

Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived(misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality.
Nor cheats (swindlers and thieves), nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.
And such some of you were (once). But you were washed clean (purified by a complete atonement for sin and made free from the guilt of sin), and you were consecrated (set apart, hallowed), and you were justified (pronounced righteous, by trusting) in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Holy Spirit of our God. I Corinthians 6:9-11 The Amplified Bible

Just as many of us once fit in one or many of these categories we have the assurance that Jesus washed us clean and now we are no longer slave to those sins.
Much blessings to you.
__________________
"You have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, Abba, Father!" (Romans 8:15 NASB)

Chosenbyone,

This is a beautiful testimony. I will have to say that I agree with the Pastor's handling of the situation. It is my opinion that he was protecting her. Just like many on this forum, many in that particular church would have looked at her and treated her differently. Should they? No, not all all, but in our humanness we judge some particular sins worse than others and the issue of homosexuality is one of them.

God will open doors for her to share her testimony with just the person that needs it. When the time is right her sharing, regardless of anyone's acceptance of it or not, she will be strong enough to take the criticism that comes her way.

How do I know this? I was once caught in a sin that had me bound, was forgiven, and delivered, but many [16 years after the fact] still label and critisize me...even many on this forum who know very little about me. 8 years ago I would have fallen under the load of the criticism, but today I can take it with a grain of salt. I know who I am in Christ and what He has done and am no longer under condemnation.

Sincerely, Sis. Rhoni

Why do you think society is so obsessed with this issue right now and why do so many seemingly 'normal' people want the society as a whole to accept this??

I don't think it is obsessed with it. I think a very loud minority is obsessed with it and WANT us all to be obsessed with it

Maybe. It's just in the papers and on the news all the time.

In the quest for tolerance and acceptance of everyone regardless of their issues, there had been too much compromise. Just like the ultra conservatives who go above and beyond scriptural inferences and references to the point of embracing legalism, and the ultra liberal who, in their new found liberty excuse even the sinful - justifying all they do by misappropriating the value of Grace...the world, in excersizing their freedom, have forgot the principles this country was founded on, justify all dysfunctional behaviors, allowing the behaviors to be 'normalized' to the point of accepting things that should never be accepted, and which infringe upon the rights of others as persoanl accountability is neglected while freedoms are mistaken for whatever happens is all right.

Balance, and moderation in all areas of life are needed. Morality should be our goal and not just individual choice.

Just my thoughts on the whole matter.

Blessings, Sis. Rhoni

That makes teh papers and news obsessed with it, not society. That is my point, they are trying to push this on society

The media, i.e., Newspapers, T.V., colleges, and internet are powerful ways to spread the propaganda to the world as a whole. If society wasn't focused on it - it wouldn't be in the media. What are we doing to stop it? Or should we?

Just curious, Rhoni

True, but it does seem like the homosexual movement wouldn't have this support without heterosexuals backing them. I just find it interesting that this is happening.

As far as the transgendered movement, I saw a video in a class of a kid who was a twin and he liked all girl things and sat and walked and talked like a girl. So, they were saying he will probably grow up gay. I was very angry when I saw that thinking, "how dare they put that in the mind of a kid just because he has feminine traits"!! Is he now expected to grow up gay? What if he doesn't? Will he be letting down a whole community of pro-gay people? Just as kids who grow up in the UPC face tremendous pressure to remain UPC, I imagine some kids grow up with strong pressure to keep up the charades of others. I found it very sad.

As far as homosexuality...I do believe some may be born with a propensity....or gained a propensity because of molestation. I think it is wrong to chastise anyone who has a propensity but is trying to overcome. On the flip side, I don't like how so many are simply embracing homosexuality as normal. Peopl have a propensity towards alcoholism and being over weight too. That doesn't mean we just accept it without a fight.

That is totally false. How can society be focused on an issue it knows nothing about yet? It's the media that pushes this stuff INTO the forefront.

How many people would know about gay marriages if not for the media? Society is clueless until the Media tells them and makes it seem common or normal.

Media does not represent society, they represent their own interests and agendas...why do you think there is such a difference between Fox and CNN? If what is in the Media is just what society is focused on then why aren't all Media outlets exactly the same?

Rhoni -

You've heard me mention many times about how everyone needs an example of grace in their lives. To see that there is hope for whatever they are struggling with by witnessing and hearing the testimony of one that was set free by Christ.

Have you read, "Gay Conversation" Hope for the Homosexual by Lynda Allison Doty? Sister Doty is an Apostolic Christian counselor who writes from her experiences with her son's struggle and conversations with a brother named Nello Pozzobon who was set free from that bondage.

Nello is a living testimony, an example of grace, out of homosexuality through the delivering power of the blood of Christ. On page 62 of this book, he and Sis Doty are having a conversation about keeping testimonies a secret rather sharing them.

Nello speaking, "Rather than keep it a secret, and hiding what the Lord is doing in these people's lives, these testimonies need to be shared. The more people standing up to testify to what the Lord has done, the more those who are struggling will start reaching out and receiving the help and the support that they desperately need from their pastors and from the church.
I heard something a long time ago from a minister who came out of homosexuality and is now working with the black churches in reaching out to gays. He used Lazarus as an example of a sinner coming to the Lord... and specifically, a homosexual coming to the Lord. He talked about Lazarus being "dead"....all wrapped up in the tomb gauze, buried, in the grave....And then the Lord shows up, and brings Lazarus back to life! But then what happened....as Lazarus made his way out of the tomb, was he "free?" No, he was still all bound up with the wrappings and cloth and all of that stuff....So here he comes, stumbling all around, bumping into everything, having one hard time....and what did the Lord have to say to His disciples....He said: "Loose him, and let him go!" What is suggested here is that ONLY the Lord can bring us who were dead in sin, back to life:....but then, it's the work of the church to touch them, to help them get loose of all that had them bound. This was so powerful to me."

Awesome! I may have an extra copy of this book if you haven't read it. I'll need time to locate it, but let me know if you would like to read it.

It gives a whole different perspective on outreach and deliverance to the gay and lesbian community.

Blessings to you, my friend.

Bro. Chosenbyone,

If I am not mistaken, I have heard of this family but have not read the book. I would love to though so if you'll send it to me, I'd love to read it. Thank-you. Have you read the book, "The Forgotten Harvest"? This is a good book discussing the things we have discussed in many threads on this forum.

I am always open to more information on reaching the lost...no matter what their issues.

Blessings & Prayers, Sis. Rhoni

dear Prax,

Just because you, in your small circle of friends and community haven't heard of it doesn't mean others haven't. We've seen the transgendered around since the early 80's when it began to be more common place to see one in a public restaurant as one ate after service.:coffee2

Me thinks that you can't broad brush the subject and say my statement was false...a bit presumptuous on your part. But many of us have been at different times on this forum...including me.:girlnails

Blessings, Rhoni

Dear Rhon, I never said others haven't heard of it....please re-read what I said so we can continue this great intellectual discussion.

Me thinks it was YOU that tried to paint with a broad brush in my stead. That's called a strawman argument.

I argued that it was NOT "an issue" of our society. I never denied parts of our society knew about it, but it just was not something people sat around the idiot box discussing or while getting stoned on humbolt skunk weed they said "Hey, you heard the latest news? Transgender is a hot trend, let's discuss it"......

Sorry, and I am quite sure Rhon, you have absolutely no knowledge of me personally to say anything about the size of my circle of friends or enemies...and I can tell you my enemies have not made it obvious that transgender was a hot topic to be discussed in any circle of friends until only recently when certain news items came out. Otherwise most of them were shocked to even discover that someone they knew was gay, transgender or just Lola EL OH EL AY Lola in drag

Rhon, before you point your long bony finger at me and say "presumptuous" consider that you were very presumptuous and egregeously so, to suggest that I claimed NOBODY in our society knew about it...good grief

I say your statement is false that the Media only reports what is at the forefront of our society or what our society is already as a whole engrossed in and not rather the Media trying to make everyone aware of something the society as a whole is not already aware of or at least does NOT care enough about it to discuss it. The Media seeks to make it common to us. The Media is the one that wants to make US the consumer think the rest of society thinks differently from the way we think.

The Media will have you believe most Americans accept homosexuality as normal behavior. It does not reflect what most Americans accept, believe or are even discussing in their small small backward circle of friends Rhoni.

Now, if you say I am wrong then prove it. Prove that the Media only reports what society as a whole is already talking about and not the other way around...I have to ask...WHY report on it then? In fact that is the second time I asked

All of these things are a sign of the times:

II Thessalonians 2:9-11 [NIV]

The coming of the lawless one [anti-christ] will be in accordance with the work of satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Dear Prax,

I never even mentioned your enemies, you and I were both a bit reactive...let's get back to the issue.

Blessings, Rhoni

P.S. My fingers are short and chubby not long and bony:hypercoffee

Though about this through the night...

People in the Western world (Europe and the Americas) are essentially sheep: issues become important to them when the media tells them the issues are important.

We are about to see a train wreak.....The agenda of the missing be-attitude of tolerance is about to meet the agenda of alternate lifestyles.....When they force both issues into the church.....then boom....I'm glad I Pastor in the sticks.

The Gospel is for whosoever will, but Jesus was plain concerning qualifications.

Who will must first deny self..

Who will must first follow...

Who will must first die to the old man...

To allow and tolerate the make-believe world of trans-gender playfulness is to allow a "killer" spirit to infect the body with desception to the extreme.

We will no longer be shepherds, just hirelings and herders of goats.