Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

Apostolic news magazine publisher P.M. is sounding the alarm concerning the "growing anti-holiness, anti-doctrine, and anti-Bible rhetoric."

He claims some in the Apostolic Movement are propagating "pre-revolution rhetoric" concerning separation from the world and essentiality of baptism and speaking in tongues. (Seems a bit interesting that he refers to this as a "developing migration" away from that which is/was. The evidence seems to show otherwise. The offical UPC organ used to not only send up kites to show tolerance but actually had written statements of tolerance.)

"Social network pages are filled with self-loathing Pentecostal young people and self-anointed self defined cool preachers who will mock those who attempt to call attention to blurring lines between righteousness and worldliness".

Perspectives Magazine Vol 20 number 5

Question: What are those Apostolic Pentecostal social networking sites he has in mind?

He makes reference to some terms these mockers use - terms I have not seen used on AFF. Like "holy hags", "bun ladies", and Pentehostile".

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

Now if he had mentioned women in "bundage" I would have thought FCF, NFCF, or possibly even AFF.

If this is the magazine that PM / IBC publishes in the past it actually was pretty even handed. Years ago they did an article on the TV ministry issue and interviewed a UPC preacher I knew who was for it and they actually published his quote.

I think DKB sees his mission as clarifying and drawing a line in the sand in regards to UPC distinctives / seperation. Hence all of those district letters modeled after the one he did in Texas and now this article might even be a part of that campaign. Something that in recent years PM is probably on board with since he sponsers the "Save The Fort" conference annually.

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

Yes it's IBC Perspectives. It's a pretty good magazine with a lot of contributors and practical info.

I think most would see PM somewhere to the right of DKB. IMO he has shifted his stances even further right in recent years.

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I thought we had the corner market on holiness puns (well in our FCF and NFCF days)- what other source could he be speaking of if it's not AFF??

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"This migration may not have reached the tipping point at the moment, but in a short time it will; and the outcome will define the Apostolic Movement and determine it's destiny."

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Okay, that one is fairly clever. lol The "holy hags" one just seems mean spirited. The "bun ladies" pun just makes me want a honey bun.

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

The Apostolic Movement is MOVING! Why??? I saw this coming many years ago when the Internet was in its infancy stage. This highway of information and communication has become a THREAT to past attempts to manipulate people in every area of our lives.

Think about it. One of the main platforms and uses for the Internet in the early 90’s was for doctors and medicine. This "Tool" helped physicians to get answers to a bad diagnosis, NOW! No more presuming, so to speak. Find out what the problem is and treat it with the right prognosis and medicine. We can walk into our Clinics today more informed than our doctors, helping us to “cut to the chase”, getting better sooner, rather than later.

Knowledge does this to ALL things, including Religion. Keeping people in the dark has been one way to keep entire Nations under control, while also allowing Big Corporations to make a mint off of the poor an unlearned. You can go to your mechanic before he fixes your car with enough information to keep him honest. Years ago, you would be at the mercy of his advice. Today, just google your problem, and if you’re willing to do a little research you can uncover the mystery, saving yourself hundreds, if not thousands of dollars.

Look at China. They do everything they can to regulate this "Info Highway", but the more the people of China become informed, the less that Country can persuade them to follow past lies and doctrines of evil.

All Religions are undergoing the rigorous test of people becoming educated. And when they do, look out!!

Fear, Hoovie, is why you are seeing these types of articles. Fear is always the Byproduct when the covers are rolled back and the Truth is known. And, when Fear instigates the motive, don’t be surprised to see fingers pointed in the wrong direction and people burning at the stake.

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

What do you think? Are we tipping into a "growing anti-holiness, anti-doctrine, and anti-Bible realm"?

Or is that just rhetoric from some who want to steer things right of center and resist a return to the tolerance of the UPC's past? (see my lower signature for the tolerance I reference)

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Anyone been on EA recently? And isn't there a Apostolic singles website? Either of those mention these types of things? Those are the only other two sites I'm even vaguely aware of other than the 'preachers only' one. Haven't read anything like that on here, and GNC would be in an uproar if anyone dared. :)

I haven't read anything the things mentioned.

As for the statement about tipping into a "growing anti-holiness, anti-doctrine, and anti-Bible realm"... guess those three might depend on what a person defines as holiness and doctrine.

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

More evidence that Mooney has lost touch and is increasingly irrelevant.
He would have set the org back 40 years as GS.

His Verbal Beanesque rhetoric has become predictable, desperate and Chicken Littlelish.

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The emmy for the best over dramatic Leon Westberg impersonation goes to Paul Mooney.

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I would like to say hi to sister Mooney who has posted here and I am sure still lurks. As she did on Synadelfos.

I wonder if Paul logs on under her screen name?
Like Felicity used to do.

Paul how about engaging in honest dialogue?

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DA U R Nuts!:toofunny

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THAT would be fabulous! And like our one time guest Thomas Fudge, he can and should expect to receive complete and total courtesy here on AFF - should he care to join us.

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Nah. We're pretty lame here. Google "Pentehostile" and you can get some interesting "social networking" sites and posts.

I liked:

""PENTE-HOSTILE"-About Women-NO Make Up & NO "TOE CLEAVAGE""

Yeah. Gotta break free and show our "toe cleavage!"

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I am sorry but it's the duplicity of these guys that gets me.
Always do what I say and not as I do.

It's like NAU who had his own hotel room next to the WEC so he could watch the Cubs game on the debbil's box.

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

Jentezen Franklin seems to be a key source of the phrase Pentehostile:

"I was thinking about Leah…how unattractive she was.


I was raised in the Pentecostal church; another word for it would be "Pente-hostile" Cause we were against everything. We didn't believe in having no fun, and especially anything for women. We were against it.


The women couldn't wear pants; they had to wear dresses, which was interesting in the annual softball games…picnics. They couldn't wear make-up, they couldn't wear jewelry. This is how I was raised.


We didn't…I was telling someone the other day: we didn't have to cast demons out, we just showed them our women. They fled!


They didn't believe in make-up, but they needed to believe in make-up! They needed some Mary Kay!"

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

You know, maybe I'm just tired this evening... but wasn't that called "The Mary Kay Hotel?"

Somebody help me... what was the name of that old motel next to the WEC?

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

I remember a young lady in a small group I was in. She was from a family of Jehovah's Witnesses. She was one of the few Christians from that family. Most were still in the bondage of that error. This was about 15-18 years ago. Internet access was allowing lots of JW's to see beyond their controlled and cloistered environment and discover truth.

For years the Roman Catholic church held people in its control. If you weren't baptized, your sins weren't washed away. If you didn't confess to a priest, your sins weren't forgiven. If you weren't married in the church, you were living in sin. If you left the church, you were lost. If you didn't receive the sacraments you were lost. If you died without the last rites you were lost. If you did not merit a Catholic funeral, you would not go to heaven. The church held you in bondage from the cradle to the grave. See any parallels with the UPC?

A similar thing is happening today. The UPC has kept people in bondage and darkness with their traditions and some are now seeing outside light. It has to frighten the hierarchy that people might start thinking for themselves and escape the religious control. No wonder they are railing like they are about the emerging church and about Apostolic identity and allowing stuff like "holy hair" to be used to keep people in line.

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

I don't like the terms "bun ladies" and "holy hags." Nor do I like the term "blue denim whales." They just seem like mean spirited words directed at women who are held in bondage by fear of losing their souls if they dare to question man made rules imposed upon them by men of authority.

Now, "Pentehostile"? I've seen and heard that in some churches where the message is presented in anger and rant instead of in love.

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How about posting PM's article since the IBC Perspectives site hasn't been updated for at least the past 3 years?

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The latest copy I have is Vol. 20/No.4

When did you receive Vol.20/No.5 ?

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

I received it today. I don't know if the material is copyrighted.

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

This is very interesting considering the recent thread about TFT speaking for Jentezen Franklin http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=29625

Here is more of the quote in context.
"If one doubts that there exists growing anti-holiness, anti-doctrine, and anti Bible rhetoric, please listen more carefully. Social network pages are filled with self-loathing Pentecostal young people and self-anointed self defined cool preachers who will mock those who attempt to call attention to blurring lines between righteousness and worldliness they test the nests to see if they can gather likeminded followers living out their selfish lusts. Greedily they gather disciples unto themselves, appealing to a heightened sense of carnality, sadly even among some longtime church folks. They make fun of holiness, inventing new epithets such as "holy hags", "bun ladies", and "Patty Pentecostals". One popular Charismatic preacher recently referred to people who practice modesty in dress and avoid extreme worldly styles as "ugly worshipers" and "petehostile". "

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

Great - now you have me wondering... Stayed there a bunch as a junior quizzer. I bet that place has had more people swimming fully clothed than any other hotel pool on the planet.

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If that's the case, then the irony is even richer.

You gotta figure half of those games were during the day time since Wrigley didn't have lights back then. Which means, it was done on company time? I would hope not on the company's tab.

Wonder if they ever had Calvary Tab pastor day and Nathaniel "The Vicar" Urshan, Paul "Pseudo-Con" Mooney, and "Oil Hands" Ray Hoekstra sat before Baal to watch the Cubbies?

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What, no reference to Holy Magic Hair? This is an outrage!

[tic] :lol

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Actually for the most part they edit "Chaplin Ray" Hoekstra out of the history of Calvary beyond a one sentence mention that he was there before NAU. I had to dig to find out anything about him when I was at IBC. Pretty much they play it like NAU was the one that made Calvary/Indy as a church.

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Apocrypha,

I would like to interview Ray's son ... I have some questions as to the "transfer of power" when Hoekstra allegedly left CT to manage Little David and fell into "dangerous doctrine" prior .... only to return and "demand" the church back... then started a church in town trying to "steal sheep".

Requiring Glass and Guidroz to come in their white horses to help NAU who allegedly could not take the pulpit for several weeks during this "trial".

I think there are always 2, 3, 4, 5 sides of any given story ...

Of course, that Jean and various members of her family were from Hoekstra's church ... might have some significance ... and that Hoekstra asked NAU to care for the church ... when Nathaniel had been at his dad's church in Manhattan is also mildly curious.

Of note. also, Hoekstra took a handful of folks and took it over 200 during his tenure as a young pastor there with his PCI leanings.

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Would love Perspectives to step up.... or man up ... and address HMH ...

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They won't. I've already asked the editor who is a friend of mine and implored him to cover it several times now. Stoneking is too hot a subject to mess with.

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Yes, it was called the Mary Kay Motel (so, not a hotel)....lol!

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

Everything you say here is the sad truth. All Religions wind up going down this road.

An example that came to mind of mortal value was this. Many in the World live in deep poverty and hunger. People live in this darkness, lacking understanding. The rains fall from the sky in torrents, ravaging the landscape with floods and destruction. Land is looked upon as an empty void of useless earth.

The time came when someone with great knowledge on how to harness the water came upon this scene of doom. People expecting another day that was more of the same, gave heed to these that had a real answer.

They built a dam on the rivers. They brought in equipment and dug irrigation canals. Soon, the heavy rains that once pillaged the town were now controlled and channeled into the fields where the seeds lay. Crops grew, cattle were fed, and the people migrated into a new existence.

Weakness turned into strength. Bodies were nourished. People began to learn and become strong. Governments that once shrouded these villagers with an iron fist became nervous, and fear struck the very ones who used fear to subdue the weak and unlearned.

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

"Fair Use" of copright material states that up to 20% of a given publication may be reprinted in whole for review purposes.

From past issues, PM's opening comments are usually far less than 20% of the mag.

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

J. Franklin was referring to his own upbringing in the Church of God (Cleveland, TN). Since they're "trinnies" all the way we really can't count their homely spinster maids among the Oneness Apostolic ladies of beauty and purity.

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

Exactly ... it's like taking offense at someone mocking Mormon or Amish women ....

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I know Bro. Mooney personally, and have a great deal of respect for him. I do not agree with his thought patterns, and I would agree that he has reverted to sounding the "anti-charismatic" siren way too often.

But, I would bet my life on the fact that he is NOT duplicitous. I know that some are, but one thing I've always respected about PM is that every time I've been with him, and from everything I've heard from those who are with him, and have stayed in his home, he practices what he preaches.

If anyone knows for a fact otherwise, I'd be open for dialogue, but at this point with what I know, my opinion is that he's real.

Maybe increasingly irrelevant, but real.

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

Mike, I understand your view ... but it's a bit inconsistent to lambast these social networks like AFF and have your wife participating in them ....

The same goes for the JP Crowd who rent their garments over what it is posted here but lurk and post anonymously.

JMHO.

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms
 

How do you know that Mickey posts here?

Re: Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms