UPCI Changes
 

Has anyone noticed any changes within the UPCI either locally or nationally since the installation of the new GS? If so, what have you noticed and do you think it's a positive or negative change?

Re: UPCI Changes
 

No changes at all in our small church. Are we expecting any?

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I don't go to a UPC church or a church pastored by a UPC minister so I would not be affected.

One thing that has seemed to be emphasized under the new Gen. Supt. is "Apostolic Identity."

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At the Mich mens conf. J. H. Osborn pleaded to the next generation of men: "You did not write this doctrine, do not change it, do not analyze it, just preach it!"

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Its getting harder to preach doctrine that is not Biblical!!!

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Wow.

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Don't analyze it??

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Yes. I took that as "It's right no matter what, shut up and preach it without questioning it."

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Some things about the UPC don't change.

sigh!

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They dont want you to question it!!! You will find out all that legalism is ......... well just that!! I have questioned many things in 38 years , the one most popular answer was " because the pastor said!"!

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How else they gonna keep the "U" in "UPCI"? :thumbsup

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Like I said, I am not UPC. I do not go to a UPC church and am not licensed by the UPC so my opinions do not have any weight. But, it is my opinion that the whole "Apostolic Identity" emphasis is just "teaching the commandments of men" or emphasizing what the Roman Catholics would call "holy tradition "as a supplement to Scripture" or "in place of Scripture." Notice the emphasis on not questioning or analyzing, just obeying it and teaching it.

This may be an emphasis on "straightening up" or "laying down the law" by the new Gen. Supt. as a reaction to folks leaving the organization on Bro. Haney's watch over what was seen by many as "compromise" "deteriorating standards" or "encroaching worldliness" by allowing "hellivision" and by allowing "facial hair" on the GC platform. There is an old saying about a new broom sweeping clean. He may want to serve notice that he is now there and he is "large and in charge."

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Chilling.

Just check your mind at the door and follow tradition blindly.

Ironically, this is the identical behavior apostolics castigate in others when "denominal" Christians refuse to abandon their own traditional positions, often centuries old, to embrace ours.

We are to have the mind of Christ, not to abandon the mind entirely. We have a sacred and scriptural obligation to study and examine the scriptures to be sure that we are truly delivering the gospel that was ONCE delivered unto the saints.

It raises my hackles when ministers are told to sit down and shut up regardless of their honesty, sincerity, or walk with God.

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*jaw dropped*

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Isn't this how cults are started? Close your eyes and follow!!! :spit

BT

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The blind leads the blind and don't ask questions!

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When our freedom is lost to ask questions we have become a communist state....

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I know one group in Brazil that has their laws hanging up in the walls of their church and the missionary's phone number for saints to call if the rules are not obeyed...

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Now there's a warning for the admins (the following is totally TIC):

If you ban Timmy, you're a commie!

:ursofunny

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Well, people may do and preach things for salary but coming from their heart is another story...

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I WANT my people to ask questions...I want them to know how I feel....

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This really does illustrate the failings of the "con" movement within the UPC and, in as much as the "cons" have taken control of the org, the failure of the UPC as a whole.

The constant refrain is, "Just drink the kool aide!" People are looking for better answers than that. These goofs can't even substantiate their core beliefs.

What makes them think sincere, believing Christians and honest converts to the Christian faith want to chuck their brains and their Bibles just to conform with a 50 year old dress code?

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Well said! :thumbsup

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common cultic control tactics

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And if we do ask questions we are demanded to go pray through until the demonic spirit of rebellion is gone!!

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'Tis true.

I'm wondering if Rev. Osborn is referring to the once delivered doctrine or the 1945 interpretation? Curiously enough, if those men had heeded this advice, and declined to initiate a radical departure from long held traditional beliefs, there would be no UPCI, ALJC, or even an AofG. Thank God for men who are courageous enough to re-examine timeless biblical texts and apply them to our present generation.

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Even in Judaism, the tried and true way of leaning is through questioning, arguing, debating AND not being fearful of not having all figured out! :D

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As a good friend said, "Sounds a lot like the preacher who writes in the margin of his sermon notes: "Get real loud here--the argument is weak!""

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Well said. Your words could almost be a paraphrase of Paul in Philippians 2:12, when he admonished us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

I will not leave something so important unexamined. That kind of cavalier treatment of "so great a salvation" should be left up to the agnostic and the apathetic.

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I think he meant, some things are not questionable or debatable.. they are set in stone. the Godhead & Salvation is only one way! There is no debate.

Remember he is speaking to the church, not sinners. Of course sinners will and should ask questions! But if you have been in the church for years and your starting to question the new birth & oneness... you got problems

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Those that never question those things have just as many problems!

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Why is it a problem to question even the New Birth and oneness, among other things? Anything that is 'truth' will stand up to everything you can throw at it (if done with intellectual honesty).

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More problems, imo. If you never question, you'll never know if you're in error.

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That's the whole point of not questioning!

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The UPC fellowship was first formed upon the very idea that there was some question about the details of the New Birth. A sizable group of men felt that remission of sins was by faith in the blood of Jesus Christ which was shed at Calvary (Romans 3:25).

Are we to not analyze that? Are we supposed to not ask questions about the merger and the latter manner in which a good number of sincere and vital components to the body of Christ were amputated?

What else have you got to hide?

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Yeah, but their backs are against the wall. They know that they have no justification for "preaching" much of what they do and that they haven't even answered the "sinner's" questions, let alone the questions of their own brethren.

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Like their proposed new logo?

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/e.../topheader.jpg

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What do you with the MANY variations of Oneness Doctrine? There isn't an agreed upon orthodoxy in Pentecostalism on this. You do realize this?

Maybe your unity is being AGAINST the Trinity, but not necessarily for a unified theology of the Oneness?

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Exactly.

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I take it that Bro Osborn only meant that the Apostolic doctrine comes direct from the Bible and that the next generation should not change it!