The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

1 Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging.
10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

1) What convinces you that the end is at hand or that there is an end?

2) And if you are convinced there is an "end", are you living like there is an end?

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

Since the only choices appear to be either an interminable heat death when entropy reaches its maximum or a fiery annihilation when everything falls back into a singularity; I am living as if there is no tomorrow because I can't fathom the eons of time that constitutes "tomorrow."

What if Peter's "all things" was an elliptical phrase like Paul's usage in Philippians 4:13? What if the "all things" Peter had in mind came to an end already long ago? How should we then live?

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

We'd have no right to live! Shame on us!

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

If something was at hand in Peter's day, it is long since past now. Situations are different now, and we do not have the same impetus they did to serve God. But that in no way means we should not strive to serve God properly, lol. There are many reasons to strive to serve Him more fully.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

good ol matt henry said he was referring to : "The miserable destruction of the Jewish church and nation foretold by our Saviour is now very near"

I agree with him.



Mt. 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
(AD 30 somethin)


Col. 1:6 the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit
:23 gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven
(AD 60 somethin)



(1Peter AD 60-65) ...end of all things is near



if ALL things meant literally ALL, afterward there would be nothing- not even Gods existance, let alone ours. I believe it meant the world as they knew it, old law/temple and such, IMHO.


(Bible says Cezars tax went into the WHOLE world,but it really didnt as far as the entire planet.)



option #3 Striving to live a life that aligns to His Kingdom :thumbsup

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

Yea right:

[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

While you neglect the thought of AT HAND, do you not believe there were no scoffers in the first century who mocked the Lord's words about the temple destruction? And when reading 1 Peter 3, did you never consider how Psalms said the earth was dissolved back int he days since the flood in the time of David, while the actual earth remained?

Check out the posts 51, 52 and 52 in this thread: http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=29579

I know I know I know. It is easier to take it at face value rather than consider Peter used expressions that must be discovered through research of the REST OF THE BIBLE in order to properly understand them, and then distort that manner of researching by saying we are just making up any old interpretation.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

The end was refering to the end of their age they were living in.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

Agreed! The end of the age of law keeping and animal sacrifices. The OLD
Covenant Age. God said He would make a New Covenant with Israel. He did
just that.


Falla39

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

So the end time teaching in scripture is not relevant to those of us today? We have no instruction for the end but they did? We are left to guess for ourselves what is the will of the Lord?

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

yep, were in a new day, a new age!! praise God.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

The end time the apostles taught do not apply to us.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

Wow what a shocking admission! Parts of the New Testament are obsolete and have no bearing for the Children of Light. We are left on our own upon whom the ends of the world are come. That is the barren fruit of preterist error.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

MD, whats the ALL things that end, IYO?

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

It's the end of the age, doc. End of the age. Some things mean one thing in interpretation, but can have other applications.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

That is as flawed a logic as saying the warnings to Noah and the people of his day about the flood must apply to us since it is written in the bible and we are reading the same bible today, and one cannot say it was already fulfilled. There is no other basis to appeal to in order to say otherwise if we follow your line of reasoning.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker (Post 912413) The end time the apostles taught do not apply to us.

There it is the fulfilment of prophecy. Men teaching the words of the Apostles do not apply to us Christians. So the words of the Apostles for the end time have long since passed away. For 1900 years their words have been useless just taking up space in our much more enlightened age. Sure why do we need the words of the Apostles anyway? Men are wise. They understand scripture better than those who wrote it! Ah it all makes sense now.

Every man does what is right in his own eyes.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

Do not confuse the Apostles "end time" teachings with the principles the Apostles taught. Bear in mind, the Apostles wrote "letters" to certain Churches or individuals as stated in the introductory part of the Epistles/letters.
We are reading someone elses mail when we read the Epistles. It is not TO us but can be FOR us.
Do you think it was written TO you/us?

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

There it is, the UN-fulfillment of prophecy. Men teaching the words of the Apostles do not apply to any Christians other than those in their generation, which they believe is living in the "last days." So the words of the Apostles for the end time have long been waiting on that lone generation. For 1900 years their words have been useless to every generation before, just taking up space waiting on that one unknown age. Sure, why do Dispensationalists need the words of the Apostles anyway? They are wise. They understand scripture better than those who wrote it! Ah, it all makes sense now.

Every Dispensationalist does what is right in his own eyes.

Have a great day! :thumbsup

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

The Holy Ghost was given to us, just as it was the Apostles. To enpower, to lead and
guide into all truth. The Spirit (GOD,Deity) could be in all. Jesus walked with those
chosen disciples (ignorant and unlearned men) and taught them for 3 1/2 yrs. He was
crucified, rose again after three days. He appeared to Mary Magdalene and to His disci-
ples at different times. He also appeared to other witnesses and just prior to his ascen-
ion, taught His chosen disciples some more, opened their understanding that they
might understand the scriptures. Sent them to Jerusalem to wait for the Promise of the
Father. The Holy Ghost or Spirit of GOD! Jesus told the disciples that He was WITH them
but was going to be IN them. That same Jesus whom they saw leaving was going to be
in them! How! THE SPIRIT (GOD) IS A SPIRIT! TO wit (know) that GOD WAS IN CHRIST,
reconciling the world unto HIMSELF! YES, JESUS went up, that the SPIRIT could come
down. That God might be all IN all.

The body (humanity) of the Son became hungry and ate. In the storm, the body of the
Son became tired and fell asleep in the boat. But when there arose a storm, the Spirt of
the Father inside the body, SPOKE PEACE to the storm. The elements had heard that
VOICE before. "Let there be light, and there was light". Now HE speaks, "Peace be still",
and the storm ceases. All is calm! All is bright! OH, HOW HE longs to bring peace to His
people today! Just as HE sat up in the Mount and wept over Jerusalem. Now HE is IN HIS
people and we carry the Spirit. Does HE weep through us as we take the Gospel to our
cities. Or does HE weep because many did not, as Jerusalem, the day of their visitation.
Approx 40 yrs later, Jerusalem was sieged and leveled to the ground. Missionaries have
gone and people and churches have sacrificed to send them to the foreign lands to tell
the good news of Jesus Chrsit. In countries where the gospel has gone, earthquakes
have almost destroyed whole cities.

There was a time in the early 1930's that "JESUS" passed by the little town my late
paternal grandparents lived. He came in an old white-haired preacher, preaching on
the street corner of their tiny town. I am so glad my grandmother heard, got stirred
up enough to search the Word one more time. To see if it be true or not. For five gene-
rations of our family, this message has been preached and obeyed. The Word of the
LORD will endure FOREVER! For the most part, the approximate 1500 people that
came from miles around to hear this humble man, never knew their day of visitation.
The days that Jesus was passing by. They didn't recognize Him in that body of clay
that the messge was stored in! But if they had only listened to the words he spoke.
Jesus told His disciples that the words He spoke, "they are spirit and they are life".
Jesus Christ the same, yesterday and today and forever!

Those in Jesus' day didn't know who He was. They thought he was "is this
not Joseph, the carpenter's son. Is this not Mary's son! If they had known
who He was, they would not have killed the King of Glory!


Falla39

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

As a life-long Dispensationalist I became an Idealist. Was that the "right thing" in your Preterist eyes?

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

Whoop! Falla's preaching. Time to go play Mafia Wars for a while.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

What's a Preterist? What's an Idealist? The label does not always translate the same from believer to believer. I believe in being a 'Bibleist.' If a person follows what's written in the Word, then they are doing the "right thing." :thumbsup

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

Brother, "at hand" means "at hand". Not thousands of years later.

Also, the overall greater point is that the perpetrators of the cross, whom John 1 distinctly said were Christ's own people and did not receive Him, were dealt with in their generation. It's part of what got us to the KINGDOM timeframe we now stand in as the church. This is significant because it puts emphasis upon the work of the cross and what was involved in that work. With all the awesome and powerful feats the cross accomplished, it likewise brought severe judgment to those who refused to accept Him, being Christ's actual bride before the cross, Jerusalem (Ezekiel 16). The greatest thing that ever occurred for man's hope was the cross. But it also brought the worst judgment ever to occur or that ever had occurred, as far as God is concerned, in the same generation. So, as much as the church went about teaching and preaching awesome things about the cross throughout the New Testament, things were gearing up for God to mete judgment forth in that generation of 40 years after the cross occurred, giving that space of time for people to repent. The apostles knew this and wrote of it quite a lot! THAT is what you might call wasted ministry, but it was very significant ministry that shouts a warning to every generation to likewise ensure we all heed the truth and not reject it, lest we fall under condemnation. How is that a wasted ministry? We read in Acts where Annanias and Sapphira were judged and see it as a note of warning to us today!

But more practically, these events that transpired show how the KINGDOM was established in the first century generation since the cross. Old Jerusalem went down and New Jerusalem rose forth. Old temple went down and new temple was established. It was as though Saul's kingdom of fleshly Pharisaism Judaism was going down while the Davidic Kingdom was rising up. The elder doubters of the Exodus were dying off while th younger believers were ready to enter true Kingdom realms in an identical timeframe of 40 years!.

And it is no more wasted ministry than the texts of the events of Jesus' life as history in the gospels is wasted simply because they were accounts that occurred and ended. Acts 2 is a history account, too. Just because the day of Pentecost came and went, are we to conclude it is pointless history since that day is not yet forthcoming? Is the account of the cross a wasted historical lesson and useless to us today because the event of the cross is fulfilled and not forthcoming? Of course not. But yet that is similar to what you are saying. Odd logic, bro.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

Sounds like you need a hug!

:hug4

Falla39

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

What does this mean:

But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

It means the ending is near, close at reach. Not 2,000 years and climbing.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

Gen 27:41 And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are AT HAND; then will I slay my brother Jacob.

Deu 15:9 Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is AT HAND; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee, and it be sin unto thee.

1Sa 9:8 "And the servant answered Saul again, and said, Behold, I have here AT HAND the fourth part of a shekel of silver: that will I give to the man of God, to tell us our way."

Jer 23:23 Am I a God AT HAND, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?


At hand means not afar off.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

So do you have any idea what "Not afar off" means? One year? Five years? A hundred years?

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

I already asked him that. He either is still workin on an answer, or missed my post.



Even better: If a NT writer is trying to get a point across that something is going to happen in THEIR NEAR FUTURE, please explain what other words they could've used instead of "near" or "at hand" to get the point across to the reader of the letter, that they really meant in THEIR NEAR future?

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

The preterists have invaded my thread!!!! Help!!!

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

All things are going to come to a fiery end, Pel. 2 Peter 3:7-12 Since that hasn't happened yet, we should therefore live according to what Peter wrote after the "therefore"...


1 Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging.
10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

First, I'll just admit that I am NOT an Eschatology student. I have strong feelings about Daniel and Revelation. And my strong feelings are, that all those who try to figure it all out are wasting their time. The book of Revelation is a GREAT book and is a GREAT blessing. Many read the book looking for mysteries and miss "The blessing".

But that being said, can you, in a nutshell, tell me what the "Preterists" believe? Don't tell anybody, but I never heard the term before I logged onto AFF.

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

They believe Christ returned in 70 ad when Rome destroyed Jerusalem.

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Seriously??? So where is He now, then? And what are we doing?

THAT'S what they believe??? Holy smoke.

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They don't know how else to make Luke 21:32 true, among others.

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I've always heard that verse connected with the re-establishment of Israel as a nation in 1948. And a generation being 40 years and added onto that, 1988 being the "Last year". That didn't work out either, did it?

But with the common consideration of a generation being 40 years, 70AD was 30 years past that. Oh well, whatever.

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There are some good discussions on AFF on the subject. And you will find tons of articles if you google it. Parson had some interesting discussions with MBlume. I like the Parchment and Pen blog so here is an article by Michael Patton.

http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blo...ach-preterism/

Re: The end is at hand!!!!!!!!!
 

Yeah, I just googled it and wow. I've been out of the theology/eschatology debate loop for 15 years and I had never heard of it. I've seen the term "Preterism" here a good bit but never really researched it.

I'm just not into the "endtime" debate. No one has the answers and it's a bunch of debate about something that can't be figured out. In bible school, I'd sit back and laugh at all the red-in-the-face prophecy guys yelling at each other and I've never been more interested than I was then. My only duty is to follow Jesus Christ and lead as many people as possible to his grace. Outside of that, God can do whatever He likes with the endtimes. I'll be ready either way.