diversity?
 

Someone explain 1 Corinthians 12: 28-30?? What is diversity of tongues? Is it the same as what happened on the day of Pentecost? If so (and if it essential to salvation) why does Paul mention it last, and then later ask do all speak in tongues? I have heard some explanation as a difference in tongues at Pentecost and an unkown tongue.

Re: diversity?
 

Hey allstate1! I hope your day is going well. Check out this link. Pretty good article on this subject.

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/tonguelearned.htm

Re: diversity?
 

If tongues are not a known language how come those understood what was being said on the day of pentecost....I think it's Acts....

4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Re: diversity?
 

There is nothing in the scripture that tells us the tongues in Corithians was any diffrent then the tongues in Acts...

Re: diversity?
 

Sounds like diversity for me in Acts I mean all those people heard them speaking all these diffrent languages...that to me is diversity....

Re: diversity?
 

Seems as if you understand my question.

Re: diversity?
 

Did you read the article? it deals with this issue and answers all of your questions. Please read the article and then respond to it. Thanks.

Re: diversity?
 

I believe "various kinds of tongues" is just a way of referring to the many people who pray in tongues.

In review of Chapter 12, though, Paul makes it clear that there are prayers in tongues and prophetic tongues (with interpretation).

"Various kinds of tongues" could also include "speaking" gifts like prophesy, exhoration, etc...

Re: diversity?
 

I did read the article and no offense but in no way did it answer my question. As mentioned in a previous post on the day of Pentecost onlookers heard them speaking in what would have been a foriegn language! There have been numerous missionary accounts of English being spoken!

Re: diversity?
 

So, you give validity to the missionary’s accounts. Do you hold the opinion that the unknown languages being spoken in Apostolic churches are not from God? How can you judge such matters?

I'm sorry if my question sounds rude. It is not my intention to be rude.

Re: diversity?
 

Dont get so defensive! You are not understanding my question. Read Acts2:5-11. Thats not a missionaries tale thats Bible! My question was , are the tongues in 1 Corinthians 12 the same as in Acts 2???

Re: diversity?
 

The tongues in Acts 2 were a sign to the unbelievers. They heard them speaking in their own tongue...therefore, they marvelled. Paul spoke of a different type of tongue in 1 Cor. 12:

1 Corinthians 12:10 (New King James Version)
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

So according to Paul, there is a kind of tongue that must be interpreted. However, this does not imply that all tongues should be interpreted.

1 Corinthians 14:2 (New King James Version)
2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

He speaks to God, not to man and is speaking mysteries, but no man can understand him. Hope this helps.

Sorry if I sounded defensive. Just making a point.

Re: diversity?
 

Read all of Corinthians 14 he is clearly saying he rather you speak so the church can understand what is being said....it is about edifing the church...not speaking in an unknown tongue..which does not exsist cause we all know the word "Unknown" was add at a later date...by the translators...

prophesieth edifieth the church.

5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Re: diversity?
 

And yes the tongues in Acts were for unbeilievers he even tells us this in Corithians...So why do so many pentecostals do it..surely they are beleivers...

22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Re: diversity?
 

Did you read the last part of my post? Please read this verse again and tell me what he's talking about. Notice the use of the NKJV, not the KJV.

1 Corinthians 14:2 (New King James Version)
2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

Re: diversity?
 

It seems to me Paul in Corinthians is saying SOME will speak with tongues. HE just makes it seem as if it is not a requirement for salvation!

Re: diversity?
 

Regarding the tongues in 1 Cor. 14, I cannot find where Paul says this. He says so in chapter 12, but as I pointed out in my 2nd post, he was referring to a different type of tongue; one that must be interpreted.

Read Acts 10 and 19. The new converts spoke in tongues, but no interpretation was given. Acts 8 cannot be explained unless you believe that the new converts spoke in tongues. If they didn't react when they received the Holy Ghost...what did Simon see?

Re: diversity?
 

So the tongues you speak as initial evidence is actually a language but the unknown tongue is not??!

Re: diversity?
 

Read all of this not the part you want to read proudfather...

1 Corinthians 14 (King James Version)

1 Corinthians 14
1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Now why would you want to speak in tongues and your understanding be unfruitful...your spriit is praying but its not doing you any good because you want understand it...your missing the Whole Point stop reading certain scriptures and read the whole chapter.. read 1 Corithians 14 all the way through,stop picking and choosing what you were taught to believe..Read it as a whole

Re: diversity?
 

Please stop with Simon....that is so old...lol I get so tired of hearing that excuse...We don't know what Simon saw..It does not say.. to me he saw someone speaking in a known language that they did not know already..why because in Acts 2 thats what happened..to you it will be uninteligible gibberish...where you get that from I don't know I have yet to find these "Unknown" tongues in the bible..

Re: diversity?
 

Have you ever eaten blowfish? Can you tell me what it tastes like?

Re: diversity?
 

Now I would suggest that you read 1 Cor. 14 in it's entirety.

20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
21 In the law it is written:


“ With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,”[b]

says the Lord.
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.

Now, go back to verse 14.

14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

If tongues are merely a sign to the unbeliever, then why would Paul want to pray "in the spirit" in private?

Re: diversity?
 

Talk about getting defensive. It's sounds like you're getting angry for some reason. If you can't debate without getting angry, then I will ignore your post. Man, what do people on this forum eat? I've been attacked like crazy and I've only been on here two days.

Re: diversity?
 

2 questions on this post! If tongues are the evidence of the Holy Ghost and the sign of salvation in the UPC why would Paul rather do it in private?? Who would know he is saved? Also what does the unbeliever here not believe in? Tongues or does he not believe the person speaking in tongues is saved?

Re: diversity?
 

Believe me proudfather I am not angry...lol I really thing the whole tongues thing is funny...especially when you have those in church that speak out in Tongues and there is no interpretion..and in Corthians it tells you clearly how to use tongues..O and go visit Holyghosttees.com..I have heard some of those "tongues" also...so yea I am not a believer of the tongues I hear in church...granted it was done in the bible..it is not being used today in the church as the bible instructs...

Re: diversity?
 

The article deals with the question of "unlearned languages" versus "learned languages." That doesn't really appear to be the point here. allstate's question seems to be about "known languages" versus "unknown and mysterious utterances" sometimes called "gibberish" by critics.

Re: diversity?
 

Okay, I misunderstood your tone. Sorry. Would you say that the tongues in Acts 2 were done "decently" and in "good order"? It probably sounded like mass chaos to some. In fact, some poeple mocked and said, "These men are full of new wine."

Re: diversity?
 

Were tongues a sign to unbelieving Israel? A foundational truth about biblical tongues is that it was chiefly a sign to Israel that God was extending the gospel to all nations. 1 Cor 14:20-22 w/references to Isa 28:11.

Re: diversity?
 

It seems to mean that the confusion arises when we as Pentecostals extol our "Pentecostal experience" as being "just like the apostles in Acts 2..."

It is this claim that allstate's question appears to address.

PF has pointed out the distinction between the events of Acts 2, and the circumstances Paul was speaking to in 1 Corinthians 12 and 1 Corinthians 14.

Perhaps we should describe our churches as a "Corinthian experience" rather than a Book of Acts experience?"

Re: diversity?
 

Nah... no anger... that's just KWSS.

Re: diversity?
 

pel that would be a good way to discribe it...lol

Re: diversity?
 

Hey my wife always tells me not to be so blunt about things..lol I say ok I will just start lying about things and not telling them as they really happen in the world..I will just sugar coat it...lol

Re: diversity?
 

1. First, I'm not UPC. Second, you should read Acts 10 again. Acts 10 actually says, "45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

How did they know that they had received the Holy Ghost? Verse 46 reveals the answer. "For they heard them speaking in tongues."

2. Paul wrote that tongues was a sign to unbelievers. "Tongues" was the sign that God was in that place. The average unbeliever probably came into the church doubting, well everything. Tongues was A sign, not the only sign. The believers good conduct and the preaching of the word of God was also a sign. Combine all of these elements, and the result is beautiful.

Re: diversity?
 

Gotcha. It's just harder to tell when someone is angry or not when your just reading forum posts. :thumbsup

Re: diversity?
 

Lol. Not really. Experience and tongues are two different things. The experience is the same, but the result is slightly different. They spoke in tongues, but the tongues were understandable to some.

Re: diversity?
 

How can we know that this "speaking in tongues" phenomena that we witness in our churches is the same thing as that recorded in Acts 2 (and probably Acts 10)?

They don't really line up.

Re: diversity?
 

Now you're just grasping at straws. Howdo you know the experience is any different than it was in the book of Acts? Were you in the upper room? :)

Re: diversity?
 

Pel, here is where you pull out the young earth quote from Ken Ham and lob it back like the R2 button tosses the thrown grenade back on COD: Modern Warfare.

(In my best Australian accent, which is not so good) No, I wasn't there but I know someone who was and he told me about it.

Re: diversity?
 

Therefore the experience was different. And, from the account in Acts 2, it would appear that not just "some" understood - but collectively, the 120 were speaking in the known and recognizable languages of the several nations listed.

This never happens in our churches. I know, I've heard contrary claims, but until it can be demonstrated I will assert that it NEVER happens.

Re: diversity?
 

It happened to my grandfather. It happens to missionary's as allstate pointed out. It still happens my friend. So experience is based upon what you hear? What if Pentecostals feel the same thing as those in the upper room felt on the D.O.P.? Is the experience still different?