Worship Casualties: Who speaks for the injured?
 

Seems this is happening more and more.

I just found out about a case where a 400 lb lady "fell out", hooking a wheelchair on the way down, flipping the elderly occupant out and broke her hip.

A year or so ago an acquaintance of mine broke some bones in an isle running spree.

I have heard of several other injuries recieved while engaging in various forms of shockamoo.

Who is at fault? Are churches insured against high risk "Out Of Body" experiences?

If we encourage radical worship styles are we accessories in crime? Who is really responsible for these injuries?

Is it just one of those unavoidables? Just a cost of doing church?

I wonder if my health insurance covers me even if I attend something like the "Running of the Bulls"?

Re: Worship Casualties: Who speaks for the injured
 

I don't know of anyone that ever got injured in my church. I do know of a hole that was put in the wall by one woman worshipping that way.

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:toofunny Good points Hoovie.

I'm all for the argument that David danced before the Lord with all his might, but he appearently still knew what he was doing.

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a WHOLE?:bliss

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I never said that!!!! You must have modified my quote... Why are you trying to frame me???? jkjkjk

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I've always wondered how you explain it at the emergency room. ;)

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Just blame the devil for putting that object that you collided with in the way.

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:popcorn2

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It happens a lot!


http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/sho...rship+injuries

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Thanks NOW. I forgot - we have hashed this in the past.

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Hey, that's not SteppingStone!

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I've seen people fall and sprain ankles, get bloody noses, get bleeding cuts across the face, get a food spiked by a stiletto heel, etc. Somehow I just don't think God gets glory out of those things. But probably the person worshipping was totally sincere. I just think it makes sense to dance with your eyes open!! There's no Biblical mandate against that.

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How about services where people go to the front and "fall down?" I have attended all kinds of churches that have wild radical worship. It is interesting that those that believe people should be "slain in the Spirit" have people that do that. Those that don't have "catchers" don't have people falling down. Hmmmmm All of them had the same doctrinal beliefs, people dancing, speaking in tongues etc.

One church I attended for a special program must have had a visitor that believed in being "slain in the Spirit" because when she went down to the front to be prayed for, she fell down when the pastor got to her. Sad thing was, nobody was there to catch her and she ended up with a head and neck injury. I wonder why God would "slay" her when He knew she didn't have anyone to catch her?

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I saw this one year at the ALJC Youth Convention. A young lady was standing but bent at waist, face facing the floor, in trivail. Another person, maybe a good 6 inches taller was bent over here and that person was in trivail too. Both oblivious to the other. Well the girl started into a wild comache indian dance or something and snapped her head up right into the face of the taller person. A bloody mouth and nose by one and gash in the head of the other with a bloody hair do they both kept praising. It was the weirdest thing I have seen in worship I believe.

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But it deserves to be rehashed. This whole issue is a sad, sad statement of the genre of "worship" that is completely out of control and completely inexcusable. Nearly all of it....maybe ALL....is a result of a system which glorifies people who are doing nothing more than drawing attention to themselves.

I didn't mean to post the other thread as "We've already done this" but as a resource for how many stories there are....and there are lots.

Re: Worship Casualties: Who speaks for the injured
 

Your new hairdo is cool.

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Thanks. I honor this man as a musical messiah. He is awesome!


Oh yeah, I like the new hat!

Re: Worship Casualties: Who speaks for the injured
 

I got a split lip at a camp meeting service once. The back of one guy's head was thrown into my face. Painful and embarrassing because it meant that despite my sincerity and my courage in coming forward to the mosh pit, I was not "in the Spirit" and thus none of my prayers were heard.

What gets me is that those who try and avoid the dangerous crazies are the ones who are ridiculed and chastened from the pulpit. I once picked up one woman's baby and car seat to rescue the infant from the crushing advance of of a dancing fat lady. After that burst of enthusiasm had settled, the pastor called me out and rebuked me saying, "I remember when you used to get excited..." Thing is, I never would leave a baby on the floor nor would I ever "loose track" of where I was. I never acted like that.

I learned early on that you can't win these arguments "in church." A forum may allow a bit of space to express wonder at some rather idiotic things, but so much of Pentecostalism developed particularly around justifying crazy "worship" antics that this will probably always be with us.

I was at one church - a National landmark now, where the pews had been ripped from the floors so many times that they were pretty much just set up like folding chairs. The flooring was so badly damaged from years of abuse/repair/abuse that the pews could no longer be bolted down. No one saw this as being a problem.

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I remember the "shameful" way he was running around during the half time show of the 2002 Super Bowl.

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I keep saying it is nothing more then the (un)official Apostolic mating ritual. "Look at how I worship! I can sire many healthy children for you!"

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So what does that say about the married man who does this stuff? Is he looking for an affair?

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Subconsciously.... Yes.

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:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny
I can't get off the floor.

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Comedians are loose on this thread! RUN FOR THE HILLS!

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It's been many years since I've been in a Pentecostal-shoutdown-nutso-self-absorbed-look-at-me-fest, but the next time I am, and some married guy shouts, I'm gonna have a laughing fit and roll down the aisle. Bad thing is, though, they'll think I'm really spiritual.

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Come on Somebody!! I feel the Holy Ghost in that! That devil always putting stumblingblocks within our paths lol. That was a good one bro :ursofunny Well I suppose eternity in heaven is our assurance policy :thumbsup

Re: Worship Casualties: Who speaks for the injured
 

I've never seen anyone get seriously hurt during the frenzied worship stuff before, although have seen people get bumped into quite a few times. I imagine the church's insurance would be held responsible since it would be considered an injury on church grounds?

It seems ridiculous that our "worship" would be so out of control that it causes physical harm to people. I don't see how that glorifies God at all. People need to be careful.

I do remember years back at Youth Camp the counselors had to keep an eye on the boys that were "slain in the spirit" at the altar calls to make sure they weren't looking up the girls' dresses...I guess they actually caught some doing that. :eek:

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I would say it a bit more strongly than "People need to be careful". I would say that people need to stop this silliness and pentecostalism needs to stop glorifying it and start demanding that all things be done decently and orderly.

And there's no such thing as "Slain in the Spirit."

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Is this the voice of experience speaking? If it hasn't happened to me it doesn't happen?

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Go to a Baptist church and the worse thing that could happen is that you hit your head on the pew in front of you while falling asleep.

I did see a small child trampled a few years ago by men making laps around the church.

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It hasn't happened to anyone. I never happened nor was mentioned in the bible and it isn't an actual event. That's as simple as it can get. Any who experience this are psychologically vulnerable and have been overcome by the "Power of Suggestion."

If being "Slain in the Spirit" (and it's hard for me to type that without gagging) is authentic, then so are the activities of radical charismatics who wear diapers because they can't control their bodily functions when under the "Power of the Spirit" or those who have laughing hyena fits, or those who "Vomit in the Spirit" and the list can go on and on and on. There is no scripture to support any of it and if any of it is legitimate, then it all becomes legitimate.

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Not if you truly love the Word of God. I guess for those that are shallow, survive only on worked-up emotion, and think that God no longer communicates with a "Still small voice" a fundamentally sound Baptist church may not work for them.

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I want to agree with this post but you go a bit further than I am comfortable with.

1 I n spite of the vulnerability one may be subjected to, I would not totally rule an experience with God out.

2 The incidence of diapers and vomit are not accepted by any significant percentage of the Pentecostal/Charismatic circles.

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As a side note, my kids LOVE Baptist Bible School! Nnext week they have two unchurched signed up to go with them.

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I saw one teenage girl "shouting/dancing" and her high heel got stuck in the hem of the girl next to her. The hem and the heel held. The waistband of the girl's dress did not.

They were on the front row, so the whole church (about 500) got a show they did not pay to see, as the unfortunate victim had to gather her skirt from the floor if front of the crowd.

God was in it, I just know it.

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I understand I'm pushing the envelope here, especially with the "gagging" remark. But I left it there because I'd like to say something loud enough so that people may want to talk about it. The reality is, having someone, basically, simulate fainting, is very dangerous. And to blame that on God is completely irresponsible. And the fundamental truth is, there is nothing remotely CLOSE to this happening in the bible.

Yet, it's a part of nearly every pentecostal circle, in fact, I don't know of a pentecostal church that would speak out against it.

You're right..."pooping and vomiting in the Spirit" isn't endorsed by most in the pentecostal culture. But would you eliminate tongues based on the same criteria? It's not endorsed by the major majority of the Christian culture? Furthermore, if something is a common spiritual activity within the church, don't you think there should be some biblical precedent for it?

I've had people TRY to "slay me in the Spirit." I could give you the name of a fellow who pushed me so hard on the forehead, it hurt my back resisting. But I'm sorry, I'm not buying it.

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I agree with you on this.People will feed off one another but at the same time there is a true experience of the Holy Spirit and I think maybe if the Holy Spirit comes on a person and we see some things that we know are not of God it's because what your seeing is not of God but what we do see is the human reaction in the flesh that reacts sometimes in a way that can be bizarre.I've never fallen over or a preacher has never tried to push me down.Don't really know how my reaction would be to that.To be honest I don't believe I would fall over because I am deep rooted as a Baptist so the preacher would probley have to drag me out of the pew.:ursofunny
I do know tongues are real because I have witnessed first hand from folks that I do know who are genuine Christians and so that is why one must have discernment and knowledge in knowing that when the Holy Spirit comes over a person it is the person's reaction to this that you are seeing and confusing this action with the Holy Spirit and his presence which can cause one to scoff at such things because of the actions from other people and how other people might react to the presence of the Holy Spirit.Not everyone reacts the same but the reaction you see is how the flesh (Person) reacts .Does this make sense because it makes perfect sense to me.

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[QUOTE=Mirth1981;921071]I've never seen anyone get seriously hurt during the frenzied worship stuff before, although have seen people get bumped into quite a few times. I imagine the church's insurance would be held responsible since it would be considered an injury on church grounds?

It seems ridiculous that our "worship" would be so out of control that it causes physical harm to people. I don't see how that glorifies God at all. People need to be careful.

I agree physical harm should not occur for the Word of God does plainly state that, "And the spirit of the prophets are subject to the prophets" (1Corinthians 14:32). But also understand that I love to worship and praise God in Spirit and dance and do quiet often, as it overwhelms me :bliss However I am also aware of those around me as to not hurt them :thumbsup

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I don't like to be pushed.

A while back I was in a prayer meeting and a visiting minister prayed for each of us. There were maybe 20 people there. I was the only one who did not hit the floor. As he pushed me back I stepped back to retain my balance. He acted a little uncomfortable about it but didn't say anything negative about me.

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It may make logical sense in the realm of pentecostalism, but it just doesn't jive with scripture. There isn't one single instance in the New Testament of any of this happening. And...if we give credibility of people "Falling Out" we then have to lend credibility to all of it...the maniacal, frenzied "shouting" where people get hurt, the idiotic "running the aisles", and even people wearing diapers because they're unable to control themselves when under the influence of the Holy Spirit. I can't imagine that there's one single person on AFF who would lend credibility to "Pooping in the Spirit", but I would contend that it's every bit as scriptural as "Shouting" and "Being slain in the Spirit. This is truly an area of...if one is ok, it's all ok.

But scripture gives us the clear guideline...it says we MUST do things decently and orderly. NO ONE could say, with a straight face, that this idiotic "Shouting" to the point that people get hurt or highly embarrassed is "Decent" or "In order." No way.