The Stoning of Human Beings
 

I watched one of the most powerful movies I've ever seen last night. It was called, "The Stoning of Soraya M."

Some films move me, others leave me thinking. But then there's the film that drives the point so deep, I'm left almost speechless. This film did that.

Based off of a true story, the reality of stoning a human being is brought out, leaving the viewer in tears. I'm not sure I've ever cried so hard watching a movie. Reviews say, be prepared to sob if you go to the Theater to see this.

IMO, this movie had more impact than "The Passion of the Christ". It was absolutely gut wrenching to watch the act of an actual portrayal of humans stoning another human, especially when the victim cried out in innocence.

I walked away from this film, pondering if God was ever even responsible for one act of this kind of brutality. We take the Bible as a fact, promoting these past atrocities of savage cruelty, but I sincerely doubt that God ever wanted mankind to stone one another.

Why do we continue to justify something we would never do or allow today, calling such a judgement "Insane" by our current ideals?

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

By coincidence, James Caviezel stars in both films you mentioned.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

Some of us DO believe the Bible. Certainly an instance where an innocent person was stoned is terrible. Nonetheless to me it shows the difference how God feels about sin as compared to how man feels about it.

Be advised. God hates sin. He at times will strike out against it very strongly.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

Mike, God didn't stone one person.

Also, numerous innocent people have been slaughtered under the name of God via unproven and unseen evidence.

Have you seen the movie? Would you stone someone?

Another point; It appears that Jesus did not support or encourage the act of stoning.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

For whatever reasons, Jesus Himself seemed to be generally unsupportive of the people's desire to stone an adulterous woman in John 8.

Interestingly, the people also stated that it was "Moses in the law" who commanded the stoning. They did not attribute this penalty to God, for whatever reason.

I'm leaning toward Not4's position on this one, so far.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

Well, if we accept the idea that the Bible is God's Word (inspired by God) then we have to accept the fact that God established a death penalty and stoning was a means of carrying out that penalty. ref Leviticus chapter 20

It is my understanding that the death penalty was instituted by God after Noah and his family came out of the ark to populate the new heavens and the new earth (ref Genesis 9:1-7) as part of what some dispensationalists would call the dispensation of human government. The death penalty was later incorporated into the Mosaic law and that law differentiated between murder and taking a life (ref Matthew 19:80). It is my understanding that Romans 13:1-7 is an acknowledgment in the NT that human government has the right to take a life. Now, all of that is my opinion and the way I understand the Bible.

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Jesus wanted to show the woman mercy. God said he will have mercy on whom he will have mercy. Notice tho he did not forbid the stoning just demanded it be done by those without sin.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

I did not see the movie that was referenced and I have never seen anyone executed, by stoning or any other method.

It is my understanding that there had to be at least two witnesses that had to give testimony before anyone would be executed by the Jews. The person was brought to the place of execution and the first witness cast the first stone. If the first stone did not kill the person, then the second witness cast the second stone. If the person was still alive after those first two stones, then others got their turn with stones. I think I read somewhere that the person who was to be stoned was located somewhat below the person doing the stoning so the stones would be coming from above the person to be executed and could hit the head better.

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32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Numbers 15:32-36. NIV

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

Here is another example of God commanding His people to stone someone:

Lev 24:10-16-

Now an Israelite woman’s son, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the people of Israel. And the Israelite woman’s son and a man of Israel fought in the camp, 11and the Israelite woman’s son blasphemed the Name, and cursed. Then they brought him to Moses. His mother’s name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan. 12And they put him in custody, till the will of the Lord should be clear to them.

13Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 14“Bring out of the camp the one who cursed, and let all who heard him lay their hands on his head, and let all the congregation stone him. 15And speak to the people of Israel, saying, Whoever curses his God shall bear his sin. 16Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

And then there were those rebellious sons. You had to have the elders stone them to death. That'll teach 'em!

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I'm not very happy with such a capricious "god" as the one you seem to envision. He "wanted to show the woman mercy" yet He would have been happy to have her stoned right there and then if anyone "without sin" could have been found?

Why didn't Jesus just do her in? He was without sin.

Also, nowhere in the Law that this mob was citing does it state that the executioners had to be pure. In fact, conceivably, the ones throwing the stones could be the next ones in line to be stoned themselves.

Yet when God Himself shows up on the scene, the stoning stops. Coincidence? With your capricious "god" of whimsy perhaps; but if we are to ascribe real meaning and purpose to our world and to our very existence we need a more certain foundation.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

I assumed this was going to be the point of this thread. (sigh).

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

Could you cast the first stone?

Could anyone cast the first stone?

Those on this Forum who defend stoning, I doubt any would do it. We "Out of Sight, Out of Mind" much of the Bible. In others words, we defend a certain ideal until it is ultimately in our lap. If stoning was inhumane yesterday, it’s inhumane today.

Watch the film. It will bring you about as close to a real stoning as you and I will ever see. Then come back on here and give us your honest opinion. Your “Shots from the hip” are missing the target.

When the father of the daughter to be stoned is handed the first stone, little did others know that he had molested her as a young girl.

Not to mention, the physical and mental abuse by a domineering husband who considered her inferior and weak. The entire village was under the spell of this twisted form of masculine power and control, and any form of intelligible research will prove this was the forte’ of these past cultures.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

It's a question that everyone asks at some point or another: "How can a loving God do something that seems so cruel?"

I'm curious though...If you doubt that God condoned stoning people in the OT, do you also doubt that God will condemn souls to Hell for eternity?

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I couldn't. :(

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

Sorry, Bro, sometimes I can't help but to think with my heart. Sorry if I love people and find deep problems of cruelty in the Scripture that seems barbaric with carnal revulsion and false judgment.

Abuse, bloodshed, and genocide bother me, and when people say God is responsible for this, I become more broken with grief. Jesus himself appeared to bring a greater message of hope, wanting to save lives, not destroy them.

This World doesn't need any more hate or anger. Watch the film, and then tell me what you think. If God is attached to something like that, I will remain confused by our Christian message that God is Love.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

This movie is NOT Gods word nor does it portay anything that happened in it. I have no interest in the movie. I will continue to read and believe the scriptures. You are obviously using the movie to further your agenda of destroying faith that they are given by God.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

To a certain extent, some level of at least tolerance for "cruelty" must be ascribed to any proposed Creator of this universe. Even if the Creator chose to give a pass to all of the adulterers out there, we still must confront the question of unjustifiable suffering that we see in our world.

The easy out is usually to blame all of this upon our erring ancestors in their all together; yet the questions concerning Deity remain. Why would the same God pummel a man to death for gathering kindling and then excuse two adulterers in John 8?

Why does this same God then infect an unborn infant with HIV for no crime at all, but allow Franklin Delano Raines to write himself a check for $20 million dollars from the public treasury before retiring quietly?

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

When it comes to questions about what God does or God does not do, and whether that means the Word of God is truly His Word or not, the issue that must always be kept in mind is that God's mind is so vastly larger than our own. Who is to say our minute minds can comprehend things that only God can comprehend? And since God is real, and He is God, it stands to reason that the true God is just and that means we must trust Him even if we cannot figure Him out. Anything else is close to or actually is blasphemous, in my mind.

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Yes. I believe Eternal Hell is a fictitious idea, brought about by ancient folklore and Religion gone mad. People on this Forum and in the Christian world can tell you Hell is real, but no one has been there to prove it is. Look into the history of past civilizations and you will find the Hell found in the New Testament long before we ever heard of it.

Hell is not found in the Old Testament, and the Jews never believed in such a place. Hell is only a recent idea, and the majority of mankind has never heard of Hell.

Eternal Damnation makes absolutely no sense, and discredits Calvary's true power to redeem lost mankind.

Here is an interesting link regarding Hell, and how Eternal Punishment is leaving current Translations.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/He...e_Forever.html

I don't want to sidetrack this Thread, but feel free to message me regarding this subject. I have a host of other facts that show how Hell ended up in Religion.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

Your post is proof that people want to hide from the facts.

Stoning is stoning, no matter who does it. The Scriptures show the brutality of stoning, period. Read the account of Stephen. What happened to this man was barbaric.

You hide your eyes from the truth and continue to hold onto your myths.

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And you are supposed to be a Christian? And A Pastor?

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Yeah, most Christians and Pastors all cheered when Stephen was stoned in Acts 7. It's still the high point in most Christian celebrations. Sunday School kids all over the world have always sought to play the role of those who cast the stones at Stephen in the frequent re-enactments of this happy event.

Way to put Not4 in his place!

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

The problem arises when people take a ridiculously literal approach to the Scriptures and end up painting a ridiculous portrait of the God of the Bible. Excusing and even promoting barbarity as some here frequently do is just one example of the pit falls of an overly literal interpretation.

God's mind is vastly greater than our own, but that doesn't mean He's a jerk. I have been embarrassed by my associations in the past with Oneness ministers who insisted that OT Law be the norm for today. I worked with one guy who actually went out and bought newspaper ads calling for the arrest and imprisonment of homosexuals. He then quoted Scripture for their condemnation and death sentences.

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What's a non-ridiculous approach to Numbers 31?

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Well, the "fact" that 16,000 virgins were even found in the nation of the Midianites seems to be remarkable.

However, seeing this as a story about tribal warfare, it's perhaps best to start with the opening statement: God is portrayed as telling Moses, "Moses you are going to die, but before you do, the nation of the Midianites will perish as well."

It doesn't really appear to have been intended as a "happy narrative." Also, given the fact that this was written seven or eight hundred years after the event we must see the writers and the later redactors as having cast many of the historical events (like warfare) in a rather fatalistic fashion as being the will of God."

Since an event had already happened, and since the writers believed that God controlled these events, their existential fatalism attributed whatever came to pass as being by the "word of God" or in line with "the will of God."

Notice also the parallels to other similar events like Saul's taking the booty from the raids against the Amalekites (1 Samuel 15). One important point here is that Israel had a way in which they were commanded to go about their warfare. They were never to engage in war for the simple pleasure of gathering plunder or "captives." The rather angry disposition of the plunder and captives (i.e" "slaves") by both prophets (Moses and Samuel) is the key highlight here. Israel is intended to learn a lesson from this about the why's and wherefore's for declaring war.

Even if they do capture a "spoil" or plunder, God Himself will take the plunder away from them. Compare this to the conquests of modern Israel in 1967 and 1973. Many Jews feel that the lessons from passages like Numbers 31, are still to be learned today.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

I agree. That's non-ridiculous, and pretty much my take on it. I would only explicitly add that God (IMO) had absolutely nothing to do with the slaughter or the taking of the virgin girls (if it really happened).

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

If it didn't "really" happen here, it certainly really happened enough times to make it a reality for the people of later generations. The key to the story isn't to find "cool" things that happened that would make a great movie experience for 21st Century Americans.

The point of the story is what lessons can we learn from the experiences of these people? And remember, people who are considered "ancient" by us today were the the intended audience for these stories and lessons. The how's and wherefore's concerning gathering a harem were actual and real considerations.

The disposition of plunder and booty needed some sort of moral guidance. Many of the lessons don't even apply to us today, but that doesn't take away from the fact that they were useful and inspired instructions for generations of souls that have preceded us on this planet.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

So those without sin can carry out a stoning.

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I could, but I'd be lying.

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I look at it like this... God is at war. War is hell. In war we often commit the most brutal acts we can commit toward another human being. The stonings of the OT were the result of serious sin. To protect the people from sin, God had to destroy the sinner, .... and God had to order that it be done in such a way to terrify the society so that they feared ever sinning or being caught in sin.

Why?

Because of Jesus.

Satan sought to destroy the Hebrew people over and over and over. One method was to tempt them as a people and a society into sin. Why? Because if Satan could destroy the Hebrew people or have them so entrenched in sin... perhaps he could prevent the Messiah's birth. Every sin and act of war against Israel, every time Israel was led into sin... it was a Satanic attack to thwart the birth of the Messiah.

Why? Because the Messiah was coming to redeem the world.

Such measures are extreme and make me sick. But I often think that if God allowed sin to go unpunished or allowed enemy nations to pervert or destroy Israel, Christ wouldn't have been born. Then where would the world be? Lost. Without any hope. No one saved from the wrath to come. However now, through Christ, all may be reconciled to God.

War is never pretty. But when I see the final outcome being Christ Jesus, the lamb for sinners slain... I'm thankful God protected his people from sin and enemy nations.

Now that Messiah has come... there's no need for such drastic measures.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

I am not defending stoning. I have no idea why God would tell them to do that...and I'm ok with that. God chooses to do/not do things all the time that do not make sense to me...I am called to walk...and that takes all my energy. I do not know what God is up to...and frankly don't want to know.

Why would I believe that God is subject to the same rules/morals/ideals that I am? I am not God...He is not me.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

Could God ask you to stone someone? If he did, would you do it?

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... and yet...

Israel was so "thoroughly corrupted" centuries before the Messiah that God turned the entire nation upside down, dumped it out and wiped it clean like a man doing dishes (2 Kings 21:13).

None of the "punishments" ever accomplished their intended goal, if the goal was to perfect the people. The best thing that they could accomplish, if the circumstances were "just right" was to achieve a sort of "justice" when innocent blood was shed.

The other things were often perverted just like the theme of this movie shows. False accusations, intimidation and fear; all conspiring for the fulfillment of man's lust.

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Someone on this forum has said that he is an instrument of God's justice. Just sayin'.

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I suppose God could ask me to do whatever He wanted. Would I do it....I want to say yes...but honestly I don't know. I wish I could say that I always do everything He ask when He asks it...but that would be a lie.

Sometimes God asks us to do some hard things...He did this in the text...and I believe He continues too. He is the potter, I am the clay...my purpose is to be defined by Him...not by me, my family, my values/goals/ideals...but His.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

Numbers 5:11-31; actually presents a sort of emollient for the cases of stoning a woman without justification. Here the "suspected adulteress" is brought before the priests and "judged."

A rather curious concoction is formulated using water and the "dust" from the floor of the Holy Place. Given the fact that only the priests were allowed into this sacred place, and given the fact that a prominent feature of this place was a table of bread cakes that were liberally dusted with frankincense, the composition of this "holy dust" is easily surmised.

Also, the priests themselves daily ate the frankincense dusting as part of the ritual and they were well acquainted with its benign effects. Thus, any woman consuming the dust would no doubt not suffer the described ailments.

The end of the matter was that the woman would be given power over her own life - a rarity for those days. If she wished to remain with her delusional and jealous husband she could. If she wanted out of what was likely to be an abusive situation, she had that opportunity now.

I've often wondered if this particular Law wasn't contrived, along with its supposedly ghastly ailments, just for the purpose of stifling the "honor killings" that were (and are) endemic to that region of the world.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

His hating of sin is not an arbitrary emotion, it's a consequence of his Holiness.

However, from the beginning, we see Mercy and compassion at work in God. Instead of smiting Adam and Eve, he dialogued with them, showing intense disappointment. Sure, he kicked them out of the Garden, and told them the consequence of their actions (not a punishment by Him as much a real consequence), but he provided clothing and from that point forward continually tried to reconcile mankind to himself. Trying to get out attention, trying to get our praise, trust and devotion. Finally, he came himself.

Re: The Stoning of Human Beings
 

Romans 13 says nothing specifically about the "right to take a life." I'm not sure where that conjecture came from.