need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

not sure where to post this... i have seen other posts about upci and not sure if anyone in one has talked about this somewhere else...

I need to know if anyone else has felt like this... and I mention upci because its all I've been to. I don't know if its just me (maybe I am just spiritually attacked and taking it the wrong way & condemning myself?) but even the other nite I listened to preaching online... it was called the sin of silence...

I feel like most of the messages I hear I leave feeling discouraged, that I am never doing enough, that I can't live up to it...

I also want to bring up I was seeing a christian counselor last yr (not in our organization) and he was trying to tell me my identity in christ... I don't know how to say this... I know we are talking about the same God but it was like I wanted to know his God, he had a loving God and the God I have come to know is just always saying its never enough... Other people in my church seem happy and not feeling this way so am I just beating myself up?

the thing is too, if the church would talk of His acceptance and love for me I would want to do so much more and would walk with so much more joy rather than feel defeated. I'm actually like that on my job too, where if they say positive feedback I tend to want to work hard and vice versa...

Does anyone know what messages I am talking about? Am I taking it to heart too much/ the wrong way...
I just want to know who He is and not be confused... I read in another post someone put it so well, the feeling like you aren't living up to it.. and never good enough...

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

I found it but don't know how to do the quote into another thread... it is SeekingOne answering Mirth1981 in the thread To those that have left UPC and she explains the frustration in this how I feel now...

6) How is your walk with God now?

Much better! The church I attend preaches the benefits of living for Jesus and sharing the love of Jesus with others. Interesting how focusing on Jesus and all He did, being grateful, and sharing all this with people who don't know Him causes me to actually focus more time on Jesus!

There is peace, happiness and joy where there used to be frustration and fear of "messing up" all the time. I don't focus on keeping my salvation and "making all the way to the end" now. Funny though, I WILL make it "all the way to the end" now because my focus IS on HIM instead of church.

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

Its because of one word that has multiple translations in English. That word is hagiazo: ἁγιάζω. The word is at times used by the translators as holiness (which in the bible is a state of being or something set aside as clean for God) and at other times it is used as sanctification, which is a process.

What you are describing is something that nearly every UPCI member feels at sometime or another. They sadly discover in daily living that they cannot get to a special state with God where they feel 100% pure/clean/holy no matter how much they try. They look at the preachers who put on a good show of it, or the super saints who seem to have found happiness... but you yourself struggle to make it real like that from your perspective.

That is where grace and the sanctification process come in. What you need to do more than anything is understand the biblical meaning of the word grace. Not the "believe one time and your saved forever" usage of grace... which cheapens it... but the active forgiveness, love and favor of god as you grow and become closer to his ideal for you over time (the sanctification process).

The problem is that you have the perception that you have not achieved a state of holiness and you have failed God in some way. The truth is that God is working a process in you, and as long as you are in active relationship with him and continuing to renew yourself daily in action, prayer, and mindset... you are in effect sanctified, justified and made holy through that relationship where you receive Gods grace and love.

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

good words apocrypha

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

Also try to listen to some other preachers outside our ranks. There are many solid messages by folks like Leonard Ravenhill, Ray Comfort, and the entire bible verse by verse by Chuck Smith. The apostolic preachers have a very specific style and slant in the way they approach things. They use a topical style that is typically light on scripture and heavy on subjective emotional trigger points to juice a crowd. These are the guys I like to listen to.

http://www.calvarychapel.com/index.p...id=1&Itemid=54

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/m...wcat.php?cid=5

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/m...wcat.php?cid=1

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

Great words! :thumbsup

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

Took me years of struggle talking to many elder pastors and bible scholars, and studing dozens and dozens of books to simplify it to that point.

I struggled so much out of bible college it wasn't funny. After years of hyped up preaching about reaching some magical spiritual state so God could use me I felt so far from that fictional ideal that I almost quit.

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

:thumbsup Focus on scripture alone, focus on your relationship with Jesus and His love for you. Then go into all the world, that you have access to, and share the true love of Jesus. Wow, will you feel GOOD! And WOW will the people you share Jesus with feel good too. :thumbsup

I am telling you that when Jesus, not some set of rules, is your focus you will be smiling all the day long.

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

Hi Krt. I think I know what you're talking about. The UPC has an unfortunate aspect to its culture whereby most of the "motivation" is worded in terms such as, "... because you're going to hell if you don't!" I spent most of my life living with these negative sour-pusses and it took its toll.

Fortunately, there are some oases in the UPC and other Oneness Pentecostal fellowships and more are springing up all the time. Sadly, the pharisees still wield most of the control.

I posted the following on another thread - http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/sho...538#post927538 . Maybe this might help you to see that your "identity in Christ" isn't based upon what YOU do - it's based upon what Christ has already done.

I sometimes would face the greatest opposition whenever I preached this in the UPC, other times folks would shout and run the aisles. There's just a real heavy spirit of oppression that has its hold on the UPC fellowship still. As more and more of us begin to see just who were are IN CHRIST, that bad old spirit will continue to loose its grip.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Under the Law, God made His people holy by sanctifying them with His commandments.

Exodus 31:13; Leviticus 20:8; Leviticus 21:8 and Leviticus 22:9.

This, however, failed to make the people "perfect" or complete (Hebrews 7:19). Knowing of this obvious human shortcoming, God at the same time instituted the sin offerings and other sacrifices of atonement. Again however, following these ordinances (or "rules" along with their "dress codes" and all) failed to bring the people to God.

See Hebrews 9:8-10

And so, even as the prophets had declared would happen (Jeremiah 24:7, Jeremiah 32:39-40; Ezekiel 11:19, Ezekiel 36:26-27 and Joel 2:21-32) God promised to do something different. Instead of making His people holy by telling them what to do, He makes them holy by filling them with His Spirit and changing the things that they want to do.

See Acts 20:32; 1 Thessalonians 3:11-13, 1 Thessalonians 5:23; Hebrews 2:9-18; 1 Peter 1:2; Jude 1:1.

We are made holy and set apart for service by God in a manner similar to the way Moses anointed and sanctified the vessels, furniture and the priests for service in the Sanctuary - Exodus 40:9-16.

See Hebrews 9:11-28 for an example of how Jesus assumes this role and where we are the vessels and priests.

Jesus Christ redeems his vessels that were plundered by sin. He washes them and sanctifies them; making them holy by His selection and His act of atonement.

We are simply those vessels He has cleansed. That's what makes us holy. Not "ordinances," "rules" or "dress codes." Jesus makes us holy.

It is the Holy Spirit and the works completed at Calvary and the tomb that make us holy, not the works that we do ourselves (Titus 3:5). We do what we do as Christians because we are holy (Romans 12:1).

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

Great words of wisdom, Apocrypha! :thumbsup

Been Thinkin

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

I'm so glad that God protected you in spite of all of the struggles and questions. You are probably much wiser and closer to God because of the process you went through.

I especially like what you pointed out about the preachers and super saints that make a good show of appearing to have it all together. I understand the pressure there is on ministry to appear to have it all together because I've been there. A lot of times leaders are putting on their happy faces when they're around church people, but they have just as many questions and uncertainties about things as anybody else.

It's not wrong to ask questions...it's not being rebellious or disrespectful. (Unless of course you just have a bad attitude)

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

thank you, Apocrypha, I am going to have to meditate on that for awhile, how sad that I've come to realize I just can't seem to accept His grace & unconditional love... I guess its good that I am awakening to it and broken, but it sure hurts...
One of the things that maybe someone can clear up is how it has been preached and what Jesus spoke of using our talents... like if we did not use a talent or do enough, thats very bad... you know how they get preaching it... and can someone tell me then, I know salvation isn't of works but is of faith, and shown by works (right?)
Is it just that we are saved but the rewards given out is what will differ according to using our talents? what was the parable of talents teaching us? I feel so pathetic that I've been in church so long and feel so lost...

and thank you, i will look into the links you left...

Oh, and if I say some of the verses just make it so scary like its so easy to be kicked out of the kingdom if you aren't living up to something, how do I take those verses? If I am doing something wrong, God will show me? I would have to want to walk away from him?

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

a talent in the bible is a unit of money. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talent_(measurement)

the parable was simply saying that we should use our life for God. He punished the servant who did nothing in fear of failure. He rewarded the ones who worked the hardest by giving them more authority and potential opportunites.

If you ever want to do something interesting visit www.gowinsouls.com and look at the video teachings of evangelist Tim Downs. He is the #1 baptizer right now in the UPCI. He baptized over 5000 folks last year. He shares how he does it every week and teaches you how to make it happen. Its hard to not be in the favor of God when you are soul winning.

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

Jesus said there were some who put heavy burdens on the people that they themselves could not bare but Christ said His yoke was light and easy.

Paul talked about a thorn in his flesh that reminded him he was still a man and it kept him humble, he also talked about fasting often to keep his flesh under control. He asked the Lord to remove it several times and the Lord told him that His grace was sufficient.

In my personal experiences in walking with Christ I have found that the majority of my past struggles stemmed from unresolved internal issues that I either repressed or were unaware of. It's a process brother and we gotta clean the inside of the cup.

A righteous man falls 7 times but he always gets back in the saddle. Just remember no matter how much we do our righteousness is filthy rags without allowing the anointing to do the work...

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

This thread contains really good material. Excellent.

Trying to live up to the religious expectations of men will never work - one must simply be willing to conform themselves to the spiritual expectations of God. That will work every time.

(1Cor 4:1-6)

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

One additional thought. This time from a man George Muller, when we spoke of the 'great happiness he had for more than sixty years in God's service, he attributed it [to] two things -- He had loved God's Word, and 'he had maintained a good conscience, not willfully going on in a course he knew to be contrary to the mind of God."

Notice: This is a personal relationship between the individual and their God - as defined by the word and the Spirit. Guiding one toward this relationship is the duty of the elders (preachers and teachers), the journey, however, is the responsibility of the individual believer.

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

You know, I've seen alot of people, and know alot of people, who are stuck on the treadmill of "not doing enough". Been there myself. No matter how much they pray, no matter how much they go to church, no matter how "holy" they try to be, its never enough. They always feel inadequate. Like I said, been there myself.

But one day while reading the Bible, I read some of the last words Jesus spoke on the Cross. His words, "It is finished", struck me like a thunderbolt. "It is finished". Maybe it was due to my hearts condition at the time, but those words said to me. "This. THIS is enough". His Death on the Cross was enough to redeem me. My redemption, my salvation was puchased then and there, and His sacrifice finished the transaction. It was enpugh. So, I am learning to, as David said, "Rest in the Lord...." My salvation is secure in Him.

Now don't get me wrong. I believe there are works for the Christian to do to maintain his or her relationship with the Lord. But, we work because we ARE saved, not to be saved. Jesus' work on the cross bought our salvation, and we work His works to maintain our walk with Him.

So, don't be discouraged. Just remember, "It is finished" in Jesus.

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

There's no arguing or debating on this thread yet. WIERD! :)

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

:thumbsup

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

AMEN!!!:bliss:bliss:bliss

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

:bliss

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

No! You're wrong! It's not "weird." It's normal!

oops!

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

Its because its true.

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

Amen!

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

Everything is good but this really touched me! I asked God to use someone to say just what I needed to hear and lookie here :o) wow.

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

I do need to just talk still, though... First I want to share I am studying the bible chronologically and was so excited yesterday at the library got the new customs and manners of the bible and some other illustrated dictionary/commentary books... putting it into perspective and learning what was really meant... and trying to start fresh but is hard with the hurts. its always been hard for me to just let go and move on... since we are supose to forgive and love, thats hard on me... not good to hold onto stuff!

Just need to talk if thats ok... one thing I remembered was a pastor used to say, what does the bible say? and you know how anyone can make the bible say what they want it to... he was refering this time to not forsaking the assembling of yourselves & are you telling me that meant you had to be there 3-4 times a week & never miss and if you had a special family event you were showing love by missing that & showing your commitment to God to not miss that service and being a light that way? while not showing love to them by missing their event? (I know depends on the event)... but thats one example... and then the fear instilled that you will become deceived if spend too much time away from the church....
oh, this morning I read over the paper while I ate breakfast, normally don't do that (read the paper) and it came to me a message that was you don't love God if you put that paper before reading the bible (in so many words....)
& recently, (& I love this pastor so it makes it hard) he taught on precept upon precept not just taking a scripture out... I was so angry I wanted to stand up and scream but that is what you do with stuff like Corinthians and the hair!!!!

I hope I don't have a bad spirit, I hope its only that I have been hurt and am frustrated and stuff... I feel so bruised & battered... esp. w/ the not doing enough, services are always making me feel I'm not just accepted by what he did at the cross... tell me his love and I'll want to serve him but don't beat me with the book.... maybe I am just too sensitive...
I don't even want to go back to church... I just want to spend time with God alone and heal... How do I go there and let the stuff that I don't agree with in one ear and out the other?
I just needed to talk and say all this...
and tell me, has anyone heard a upc message that oneaccord said up there? now that would be nice....

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

Here is one I told my husband the other day, tell me your honest opinion...

I was a new convert and holiness (outward) was preached... I already had committed to standing up in my best friend's wedding... after service I told my pastor about that, & the dress would show my shoulders, and we'd wear pearl necklace... you know... and my college friends would be there, there would be drinking... He told me the what does the bible say thingie and I had to call her, listen to her cry her eyes out and tell her I couldn't because of my new church beliefs and the bible says such and such... I felt lousy...
Personally, I am sure I would have been able to go and still be a light, it doesn't mean I would have gone and fallen and drank... I would have prayed & trusted Jesus to walk in there with me and shown them love & His light... Now I thought about it and she probably told all our college friends what I did, what kind of light is that? Now she thinks I am in a crazy cult and we never talked since...

And, if I would have gone anyway, that would have been wrong too, to not submit to my authority? This is all so messed up with verses being used, I understand why people are turned off by church & stuff... I thank God he revealed Himself to me and it wasn't just for going to church....its relationship with Him, yet I am still unclear how all this balances... Someone said on this forum somewhere its God, then husband, ....

what about how it says your pastor watched for our soul and has to give an account?
ok, gonna take a break from all this, getting a headache!!!!

I reaaaaalllllly appreciate you guys and the spirit of love behind your posts, I am really needing you now, God bless you...

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

Question: Is your husband 'in church" (a practicing believer)? If so, these issues would be most appropriate being discussed with him. If not, or if there are other issues that makes this kind of discussion difficult, then I would recommend seeking out a spiritually mature woman, like Cindy. If she thinks best, I know that she could also recommend some others that might be able to give you the 'one-on-one' counseling that might better help you through this period.

Regardless, as you start to move forward, don't forget your husband.Keep him in the loop and discuss what is going on with you and what effect the input from others are having on your thoughts and feelings - as well as what effect all of this is having on him.

Yes, your responsibility is God first, spouse second, family, ministry, the body of Christ, the 'world', followed by everything else according to your own priorities. You are under the protection and authority of your husband, not the pastor. Concerning you, the pastor enters into the picture as an instructor to your husband - at the body of Christ level of authority and responsibility. Allow no man (or woman) to come between you and your husband. For you are one flesh (and united spirit) with your husband, not the pastor, his wife, or with anyone else.

Spiritual instruction situations are very easy handle: Thank you for your concern and spiritual insight. However, please talk to my husband about this [issue], for God says that I am under his spiritual authority and protection. Then, you are free to discuss the [issue] with your husband, and to make decisions according to the spiritual unity of the family.

Reference: Ephesians 5:22-33; Colossians 3:17-25, 1 Timothy 3:12 and Titus 2:4-5. PLUS, all of this is to be tempered with the knowledge and wisdom that is expressed in Proverbs 31. As far as it is possible for you, keep your own house in peace and in order.

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

:thumbsup Yea I am her husband and I am a believer. Bump for more comments and opinions.

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

You need to find counsel somewhere.....but the last place you need to look for counsel is on this forum.

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Where from? Her pastor?

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

Anymore recommendations !!!!!

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

Somewhere ....but not here...this forum is filled with embittered, cynical, folks...many who have fell into apostasy....and the last place where counsel should be sought.

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

...and with this in mind, he should certainly not listen to you!!!:heeheehee

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I wish my computer would shoot out a dollar every time the word bitter - or one of its variations - is used on the forum. :nutso

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

:lol:lol:lolIsn't that the truth!!!

I'll tell you when people use it....when they're disagreed with. You know what, maybe I should start a new schtick. I'll do a new AFF guy, call him "Bitter" and every time someone even slightly disagrees with me, looks at me the wrong way, misspells a word....I'll say he's bitter!

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

It's quickly becoming my least favorite word on the planet!

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Well, you know why, don't you? It's 'cause you're bitter!!!!:razz

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

I figured.

And you owe me a dollar.

:p

Re: need to talk:discouraged after hear preaching
 

HAHA!!! The check is in the mail!!