Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Patripassionism is a Christian heresy from the time of the early church. Its adherents believe that God the Father was incarnate and suffered on the cross. This is problematic in the context of the doctrine of the Trinity because the Christian Scriptures record Jesus Christ as speaking to God the Father while he was on the cross. It is also problematic for all those who hold to the impassibility and immutability of the divine, as it implies that God the Father can suffer. Patripassionism began in the third century AD. Patripassionism is also known as Sabellianism (after its founder Sabellius) and modalistic Monarchianism. It was more popular than dynamic Monarchianism.

Sabellius, the founder, was a priest who was excommunicated from the Church by Pope Callixtus I in 220 and lived in Rome. Sabellius made the belief more sophisticated. Sabellius advanced the doctrine of the “economic Trinity” and he opposed the Orthodox doctrine of the “essential Trinity”. Praxeus and Noetus were some major followers who are attributed to saying that God the Father became his own Son. Tertullian was the chief opponent of Patripassionism. Praxeus tried to reconcile the unity of persons by making distinction between Christ the Father and the Son, a mere man. Therefore the Father co-suffers with the human Jesus.

Patripassionism states that there is only one person, instead of three in the Godhead. God reveals himself in three modes, the father as the creator and lawgiver, the Son as the redeemer, and the Holy Spirit as the giver of grace and the regenerator. The word Patripassionism means (patri) Father (pasion) suffers. Patripassionists believe the father was born of the Virgin Mary, lived, and co-suffered with the human Jesus on the cross. Patripassionism states that the Son was the Father in a different mode and that whatever happened to the Son happened to the Father. Sabelliunism denies that there is a trinity and that instead there is one essence, interchangeable as the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, each appearing at different periods of time, not existing together. Scripture used to support this position are passages like John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” and John 14:9, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.” Today Oneness Pentecostalism shares the same beliefs as Patripassionism. Sabellianism gains attractiveness from its emphasis on there being one and only one God.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

I don´t believe God the father suffered on the cross and I am oneness....

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

I deny patripassionism, but am oneness. God was not made flesh, just manifested in and through it. And Jesus is the person of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. But the SON suffered, not the Father.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

SRM, if you deny Jesus is the single person of God, then you are not Oneness, either, you know. Oneness is a term to describe Jesus as God Almighty yet not one of three persons. It is a term contrasting this idea of persons from trinity teaching. It is not oneness to say there is one person of God and also that Jesus is not that one person.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

No..I am not Oneness..I believe there is only One God, the Father,He gave His only begotten who was the perfect sinless Son of God born of Mary to die for the sins of the world.Jesus never claimed to be God,yet people try and make Him so..

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

What is the definition of patri passionist?

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Its adherents believe that God the Father was incarnate and suffered on the cross

People say Jesus was the Father in flesh!..yet they will tell you it was not the Father who died on the cross..go figure..you cannot have it both ways

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

God is a spirit, he cannot die.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Is patri from the Latin?

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Jesus claimed to be the Messiah. The religious sect knew the Messiah would be God in human form. Isaiah 9:6 explains it beautifully. The Messiah would be called the Mighty God.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Do you know the difference between "mighty and Almighty"?
Your right,Jesus claimed to be the Son of God.He told us who God is in John 17:3..they might know THEE [Father} the only true God..

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

SRM,

Do you believe the all scripture to be inspired by God [66 books] ?

Do you believe that Jesus was speaking to John in Revelation 1:8-18?

Do you discount that Paul plainly and repeatedly referred to Jesus Christ as God several times in the epistles?

If Jesus isn't God, why is it acceptable for him to receive worship, would not all worship of Jesus be in direct violation to the first commandment, and therefore be heresy, blasphemy, and worthy of eternal hell fire?

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

i am oneness ,, in am dont believe the isaiah passage says the son was god anyhwere in it . it says his name shall be called ,, big difference.

this has been an intersting post tho. prax and bro . blume believe god died on cross as they say both are god ,wait a minute they are onees but BOTH are god hhmmm. BOTH = 2 dont it?

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Glad you know you are not oneness. Some who agree with your teaching think it is oneness.

But Jesus is Almighty God and said so in Rev. 1. Heb 1 also says the Son is God.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

No, God did not die on the cross, and you are not oneness.

Humanity died, not Deity. If you are unable to distinguish humanity from deity and realize humanity alone died, then no wonder you think you are oneness when you are not.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

I haven't read all the posts. Not all OP's are patripassian. Interestingly enough Oneness historian Marvin M Arnold suggested that Oneness "Jesus Only" folks were patripassian. I think, though, he suggested it was a label foisted upon them by others. I agree with alot of Arnold but not all. I am OP and I believe the Son of God bled, suffered, died, and was resurrected on the third day. This simply points to the human aspect of God existing as man.

Anyone have thoughts on patripassianism being an accurate or inaccurate label? For example, some scholars have said that Nestorius was more orthodox than Nestorianism.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

New way to phrase the question:

Did Deity die on the cross? No

The original question that got me was:

Was the flesh of Jesus Deity? No

Trinity and Oneness Both have holes...

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

True oneness does not believe deity died nor that the flesh of Jesus was deity, though. What holes do you see in oneness?

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Oneness claims the flesh was God.

When scripture says, "The Word Became Flesh," what words specifically? Was the flesh Deity? No.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

The reality is that the man Christ Jesus was a Declaration of God, not actually God.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus lets us know that the very Words he speaks are the actual Spirit, not his flesh. John said a sword comes out of his mouth in Revelations.

In short, The Word is God but the man was human..

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Not true oneness. I never believed that and I am oneness. That is what I meant by saying true oneness does not believe these things.

David Bernard wrote about the Oneness and always denied that flesh was deity.

Bernard had the best outlook on oneness that I read.

Right.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

This is the 1st time I hear this. Every Oneness Church I ever visited or attended said Jesus was God...

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

I guess we come from different parts of the country. I never heard anyone thought flesh was deity until I got on these forums.

Read THE ONENESS OF GOD by David Bernard. He explains it clearly as I believe it.

Jesus is God, though. I just re-read this post you sent and thought I better respond with more words. When we say Jesus is God we are not saying the flesh was deity.

Are you saying Jesus is not Father, Son and Holy Ghost as per His person?

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

As a matter of fact it is a dangerous venture to say anything other than Jesus is God.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Right. I read his post too quickly to see he did not agree Jesus was God.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

I guess I will have to check it out.

Jesus the human wasn't the Father, the Spirit that dwelled in him was. The Holy Ghost comes from the Father which to me is the Father.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Are we talking flesh or Spirit here?

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

The single person of God manifested as Father, Son and Holy Ghost. No one said the human was the Father when we said Jesus is God. Jesus is the name of the single person of God. That person manifested as all three offices. But the name is synonymous with the person, so Jesus is Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The flesh is not synonymous with person. But the Name is.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

That is the point. You must have thought FLESH is inferred in oneness when we say Jesus is God. :) No, it is SPIRIT that is inferred, or even better, the single person.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

David Benard teaches Jesus Christ had a DUAL nature which is a thought I do not agree with.Scripture is very clear who Jesus was..He no where claimed to be God not one time anytime nowhere.God cannot be seen,Jesus made known the Father to the world but to say when someone saw Jesus they were looking AT the Father in a human body IMHO is not scriptural..

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

When I read that to me it's saying God was in the Anointing (The Spirit.)

Dual nature meaning half man half God?

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

I can think of 2 places where Christ said he is the I AM, he also forgave sins, which only God can do, and proved afterwards that he had the authority to forgive sins by healing the man of palsy. He didnt claim to be God, He is God and proved it with both words and deeds.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Sounds weird does it not?..I agree Jesus Christ was annointed by God himself..

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Notice it does not say for God WAS him..as some would believe

To say Jesus had a dual nature makes him out to be a lunatic..Umm He knows everything but at the same time,He did not know the day and hour?

Hey,let em believe it if they want,I will simply disagree and allow Jesus to be who He said He was..


Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

I call this verse the missing verse in Acts 2..it gets ran over on the way to verse 38..



Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Amen.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Yes I agree Jesus said that...but I do not believe that proves He is God!

read on 1o more verses

Joh 9:9 Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.

Guess we can say the blind man was before Abraham too?

How did Jesus forgive sin?

Mat 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Mat 9:8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men. MAN..

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

yes..Jesus was called the mighty God..but not Almighty God in that verse..huge difference

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

I read these posts and am surprised that no one has yet identified the father of Jesus!
It is assumed, by most people that GOD was the father of Jesus, but in fact Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Ghost...the father of Jesus.

Later, Jesus said the following:

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Here is Jesus saying plainly he is the Father.

Also, if your patience has not run out with me, when we use the term "Dual nature" we are speaking of 2 natures in one [fully God/fully man], not 1/2 God and 1/2 man.

Bro in SC

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Everyone knows that, bro. It is a given.

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Would this mean that Jesus, before He was born, was manifested as the Holy Ghost who overshadowed Mary, in essence being His own Father.

Who was Jesus calling "Father".....Himself?

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

Sounds like you never heard of oneness.

Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all God's single person manifesting in those three manners. How is that not possible for God, who is not a human being with limitations of a human being?

You consistently disregard what I am saying about limiting God with limits of humans. Your basis of comparison is human beings. Everytime you claim Jesus Fathered Himself, etc., you are making a basis of a single human being person to analyze if God can be a single person, when you do not stop to think God is not a single human person. That cannot be your basis of assessment!

Re: Your not Oneness but rather Patripassionist
 

The dual nature of Jesus Christ does not create a half God half man as in Greek Mythology. The dual nature of Jesus Christ is where the Almighty God who continues from eternity exists, and at the same time assumed to himself a human nature therefore creating a temperal existance: a man, the man Christ Jesus. The Dual Nature perfectly articulates, in my opinion, the union of God with man in a way which would not cofuse the two (Deity and Humanity) or effect the one with the other, but at the same time allow the person, Jesus Christ, to be both. Jesus was both God and Man at the same time. Jesus was God because of his Divinity. Jesus was man because of his Humanity. Jesus the total person prayed to the Father because of the human nature but it was the total person who prayed or else the person is destroyed and is reduced to dual personalities trapped in a body.

Jesus (God existing as a man) could be anointed by, indwelt by, be witnessed to, pray to, love and be loved by God his Father (God continuing to exist as He always has) without creating two in the Godhead or confusing the person of Christ and having Jesus pray to himself. The dual nature makes this possible. In my opinion.