Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Here's the deal...

Last week I saw a husband and wife. They are a strong part of an OP organization. He was looking like a million bucks. Very fashionable. He's very good looking and could have stepped straight onto the cover of GQ magazine and they wouldn't have had to change him one bit.

His wife? Well, that's another story. While being attractive herself, she VERY MUCH SO had "The Look." For her, there are NO options.

I'm just wondering....why do almost all the rules apply to the women? Cut hair, earrings, jewelry, makeup, pants, on and on and on. The guys? They get off just about unscathed.

You tell me.....when you see a UPC (or similar) couple in public, how can you tell they're UPC? By looking at the guy? No way. You KNOW it's from the look the women has. A UPC guy could walk around NYC for years and never be identified. A women? She's spotted in seconds. And I think that's chauvinistic.

I've never played the "cult card" on the UPC...don't think that's fair. But let's face it, one of the measuring sticks frequently used for a cult, is the "suppression of women."

So what do you think?



NOTE: This is an old thread but it was placed in some remote area and I wanted to bump it

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Nature itself teaches us that the male is suppose to be better looking than the female. Lions have the mane, peacocks have the thingy tail feathers, etc......

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

I'm not understanding what this has to do with the subject? Are you saying that because men should naturally be better looking then women, that is why there are so many restrictions on women in church organizations regarding their appearance? So that they don't exceed the men's attractiveness? I hope you can clarify. :)

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

:ursofunny
You're joking, right?

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

:toofunny

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Notofworks, I don't hear any of my holiness friends complaining of being suppressed because of the way they don't cut their hair, or don't wear pants, or makeup, or jewelry. Why do you have this assumption?

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Oh, maybe she was just joking...I thought she was serious... :)

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Uhhh.....there's a reason they don't complain. They can't. And if they do, no one can find out. And if someone finds out, they're in BIG trouble. Hmmm....wonder if that has anything to do with it?

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Well, I mean, I hope she was joking. You never know here on AFF!

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Sure they can, if they want to. Again, why is it your assumption that we are unhappy with how we look? Holiness women are the most beautiful women in all the world bar none! :)

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

This is true. :)

I have heard many enforce "holiness standards" by talking about women's lib and how "America has gone down a slippery slope" since women started wearin' pants and bobbin' their hair. Are those that promote "holiness standards" being chauvinistic and trying to suppress women? I don't think that is the intent, but one has to question the origin of all of these rules/holiness standards...most of which are directed at women. It's a valid question.

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

I don't think it's deliberately that way.

First, modern fashions dictate more immodesty from women than men. That's been the norm in our society for the last 75 years or so, although it's not the first time in history that it's occurred. In an effort to maintain modesty, it would seem that women get the brunt of the rules, simply because men can wear what is normally deemed acceptable and still be both modest and fashionable.

Secondly, I think women have a natural propensity toward things that are shiny, bright, colorful, pretty, or just plain beautiful. Personally, I know I'm not particularly tempted to blow money on a new toolbox, but hold up a cool ocean blue boatneck, three quarter length sleeve cashmere sweater, and I'll have trouble holding on to my purse. :)

Some people over the years have seen this natural tendency as a vice, (and of course like any natural tendency, it CAN be a vice), and have orchestrated overzealous rules in an attempt to squelch this feminine quality.

Finally, and simplistically, the rules are a tad chauvinistic because men have been the ones making them up. :D It's not deep, it's not complex--it's just because men don't see things the way women do, and have a sort of straightforward way of handling problems--in this case, women--and so they have these cut and dried lists that are apparently supposed to answer all the immoral issues of females around the world.

I don't think they've made up rules in such a way because they hate women or because they view them as inferior. I think they've gone about making up rules in the same way they would go about planning a wedding party. Whereas a woman is going to examine every detail, your average man would probably haul in buckets of styrofoam cups and plates, buy cupcakes from Wal-mart, cater in bbq, hook up some fog machines and call it a day.

Chauvinistic in the sense of being deliberately malicious toward women? No way!!!! Bent in the favor of men, perhaps unintentionally? Sure. Maybe a little insensitive towards women in general? Yep. Overly simplistic? Absolutely. :coffee2

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Good post! :thumbsup

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Sure they can.....if they wanna get blacklisted.

You don't believe that, do you?

My assumption isn't really an assumption. It's based on many years within the system. Have you gone to a youth camp lately to see how much the teens like it?

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

There's a great book out there ("Great" used loosely) titled, "Bobbed Hair, Bossy Wives, and Women Preachers" by John R. Rice. He was actually a conservative baptist.

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

I thought she was too, serious that is.

I think my big Sis is.

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

You just say that cause you are good looking.:)

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

:ursofunny

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

The UPCI's official explanation of why women should not wear pants:

"In addition, we should avoid ... slacks on women because they immodestly reveal the feminine contours of upper leg, thigh, and hip." http://www.upci.org/doctrine/modesty.asp

This has always seemed chauvinistic to me, because slacks also reveal the male contours of upper leg, thigh, and hip...and sometimes other contours as well, if you know what I mean. Yet pants are acceptable for men to wear, but not for women.

Think about it. :)

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

It's a silly argument because they don't mention the blouse that reveals the two primary feminine contours!!!!!

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Of which a very good restaurant chain was even named after.

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

My goodness, I've never heard of that nor read it. That's almost embarrassing. It doesn't make a lick of sense. And like I said, I've seen dresses at camp meeting and general conference that were WAY more revealing than any pair of pants I've EVER seen.

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Agreed. :)

Hopefully nobody gets this revelation and tries to create another "holiness standard" to make women keep 'em completely unnoticeable. :ursofunny

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Shoney's Big Boys?

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

I have listened to some men talk and if they could, believe me they would. It is almost sad to listen to them use words like "mammary glands" in an effort to be as clinical as possible.

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 18:17-19

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

That's the truth! Them behind huggin skirts are just as immodest as pants can be.

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

They shouldn't be shown off that's for sure!!

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

And our lower legs have no feminine contours either.

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Someone needs to tell Standards this so he can use it instead of the wrong scripture.

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

:toofunny

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

I certainly can agree that there are many inconsistencies in regards to physically "identifying" someone in regards to faith.

However, there are many ways of identifying an individual...words and speech come to mind; and probably would consider actions a more identifiable mark than any code offered for dress.

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Is there chauvinism re dress standards..........in a word= yes

May not have been planned or plotted but that doesn't eliminate it.

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

I suspect ( JMHO, not that anyone asked ME :D ) that such an assumption stems from the one beholding whom actually fears suppression and uses that as a reason for NOT wanting to, nor trying to..look any different from anyone else of 'the world' [i.e. those whom want nothing to do with JESUS, have no interest/belief in salvation, ONE GOD, etc.] ., which.. TO ME, seems to suggest that such a person would rather be associated with 'the world' than THE CHURCH., some even call it "adult peer pressure". :D
Again, this is MY viewpoint based on much observation., some of it former personal experience as well.

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

I just wanted to point out that "adult peer pressure" goes both ways, especially when a person is in a small community that believes if you don't look like them, you're a sinner. :)

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Idiots!!

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

???

Is that a joke?

:bigbaby

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

[QUOTE=Mirth1981;932943]???

Is that a joke?

:bigbaby[/QUOT

I dont know...is it?

Re: Are Holiness Standards People Chauvinistic?
 

Typical!