Spirit and Truth
 

Truth without spirit is legalism, but spirit without truth is liberalism

Agree or disagree?

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

I agree.

Also, Truth without Spirit makes a person blow away like dry dust, and Spirit without truth makes a person blow up with pride.

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

Wise words.

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

The first part I agree with. The second part is vague. "Liberalism" can be a good thing, in the right context. Maybe you need a different word here?

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

Disagree. Spirit without truth is just emotionalism, and empty nothingness.

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

That is true as well.

There are different kinds of liberals. There are liberals who love truth, but know that actual truth is liberty. That is what they use the term liberal for. But there are liberals who give liberty to the flesh which is wrong. So the question is what is liberalism? Paul spoke of the perfect law of liberty!

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

disagree.

truth without spirit...is still truth. and spirit without truth is still spirit.

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

Are you sure about that?

"They that worship the Father must worship Him in spirit AND in truth".

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

How are you interpreting that? Not a challenge, just curious how this is fleshed out? Here is the scripture in context, it isn't talking about theology....

Amplified: John 4:20 - 24

20 Our forefathers worshiped on this mountain, but you [Jews] say that Jerusalem is the place where it is necessary and proper to worship.

21 Jesus said to her, Woman, believe Me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither [merely] in this mountain nor [merely] in Jerusalem.

22 You [Samaritans] do not know what you are worshiping [you worship what you do not comprehend]. We do know what we are worshiping [we worship what we have knowledge of and understand], for [after all] salvation comes from [among] the Jews.

23 A time will come, however, indeed it is already here, when the true (genuine) worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth (reality); for the Father is seeking just such people as these as His worshipers.

24 God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality).

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

I agree that there are many spirits, but only one Holy Spirit and He is truth.

I don't think the Holy Spirit can be without truth and equal liberalism.

I like what a oneness person once quoted: (I DO recognize this is NOT scripture, but I thought you would appreciate that it comes from someone who believes as you)

Legality on the other hand "is a mechanical and external behavior growing our [sic] of reliance on self, because of a desire to gain a reputation, display a skill, or satisfy an urge to personal power. . . . It is religious performance, scrupulous and meticulous in its outward form, but inwardly, as Jesus described it, ‘filled with dead men’s bones.’ "

and...

On the flip-side of the coin, it is legalism to establish standards for other people when the Bible does not address the issue. Even standards for one’s self can be dangerous if they have the wrong standard. It is possible to be legalistic in the standards you set for yourself. Legality then becomes a "making [of] unwarranted demands on yourself or on someone else, especially in areas which are not prohibited in the Scriptures.

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

Several things here. First, context is important, but Jesus made many statements that stand on their own. One that is often quoted is "If you have faith as the grain of a mustard seed". This statement came after the disciples asked the question, "Lord, increase our faith." While people often quote this without mentioning the context, the statement still stands on it's own.

Notice that He said, "God is a Spirit" with a capital S. However, He also said "those who worship Him must worhip Him in spirit" little s. I am on debatable ground here, but I believe that we can only get to God through our human spirit. Once our spirit conquers the flesh, we can pray in the Spirit.

Now, the word truth can also mean reality, but no translation besides the Amplified Bible, translates this word as reality. However, let's assume for a second that this word should be reality. It doesn't really change the facts. In order to worship God, you must worship Him in spirit and with an understanding of who He is.

Hebrews 6:11 "For without faith it is impossible to please Him. For he that cometh to God MUST believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him."

God can be insulted. The disciples woke Jesus up because they were in a storm, but they didn't wake Him up to calm the storm. They wanted Him to bail water. Jesus was insulted and that is why He said, "Oh ye of little faith." I could also bring out the example about the man with the demon possessed son. Look at the following passage:

Mark 9:19-24 (New Living Translation)

19 Jesus said to them,[a] “You faithless people! How long must I be with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring the boy to me.”

20 So they brought the boy. But when the evil spirit saw Jesus, it threw the child into a violent convulsion, and he fell to the ground, writhing and foaming at the mouth.

21 “How long has this been happening?” Jesus asked the boy’s father.

He replied, “Since he was a little boy. 22 The spirit often throws him into the fire or into water, trying to kill him. Have mercy on us and help us, if you can.”

23 “What do you mean, ‘If I can’?” Jesus asked. “Anything is possible if a person believes.”

Jesus can be insulted, so we must be careful to worship him sincerely. In spirit and in truth.

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

That is not the point, though. Truth without Spirit is unbalanced and one will go astray. Same vice versa.

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

Who is the "He said" you are speaking of? John or the person that translated the scripture? From what I was taught, capital letters were not used by the original writers. We capitalize God's name etc. out of respect, it was not written that way originally.

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

"If you have the Word alone, you dry up.
If you have the Spirit alone, you blow up.
But if you have the Word and the Spirit you grow up."
Donald Gee (1891-1966)

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

John 4:20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

spirit (inner man) and truth (without pretension) - Jerusalem and the mountain are of little consequence - it's the inner man that God sees and knows, in spite of locality.

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

:thumbsup I am with you on this one.

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

It doesn't have to be truth to be legalism. Conversely the spirit can be liberal while still including the truth.

Re: Spirit and Truth
 

The point is that God ordained Word and Spirit both to work in our lives. Spirit will not replace the Word, and Word will not replace the work of the Spirit. That is how people go astray if they leave one aside and only focus on the other.