Bro. Mangun is for TV
 

Did any of you hear that Bro. Anthony Mangun is for the TV resolution? I have the dvd from BOTT '07 and he said that he was for it. What do think this will do for the cons? He is one of the most con guys out there. Does it put the other cons in a tough position? Chaotic and I were discussing this the other day. We both think that is does. Alot of cons look to him, in a since, for direction. Let me know what you think.

Old news, dude... ;) this has been discussed to the N'th degree here.

How in the world can a con be for TV??!!??!!

Its anarchy I tell you.....ANARCHY!

Still kinda new to this....only my second week here

I don't think AM has ever been described as a conservative on here before!

I, of course, think he is and when I have visited it is still 98% the old time Pentecostal look with long hair, no makeup,etc but definite conservatives claim he is liberal and cite things like short sleeve shirts on the men, video screens, light makeup (face powder / base) on a few woman and possibly some dead ends trimmed off the womens long hair. Not to mention TV in the saints home!

I think it is broadly accepted in Pentecost that AM is a moderate, ultra cons would say even liberal.

True. Moderate is a good word, but I think that even still he falls more to the cons side than the libs side. I love the guy he is my favorite preacher. I have tons of dvds and cd, etc. I know from listening to him that he far closer to the cons side than the libs side. Far closer.

I could be dead wrong in this but I have always thought that AM might be more liberal than he is today if it were not for the fact that his mom and dad lived so long.

I don't think he would ever do anything he would think would disappoint them so perhaps he held back a direction he would have liked to have gone and did so long enough that he is now set in his path.

He turned out much more conservative than I thought he would.

Political Analysis of the AM statement
 

Something I wrote for another forum ... in January ... ANY THOUGHTS???
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In this piece, I seek to analyze Anthony Mangun, a prominent and influential leader with a Oneness organization and his recent comments at BOTT, as it pertains to the church politics of the organization he belongs to.

Most would agree that his comments, at Because of the Times, a conference his church organizes, reflects a position for TV advertising in an organization that is battling this issue and is reeling from its divisiveness.

A general consensus would also support that his comments were not only political in nature. Yet, it’s safe to say:

1. He truly believes in worldwide evangelism. His well-known missions record is evidence enough.
2. He has a history of staying out of the political limelight.
3. He was exerting influence over the actions of the organization with this recent comment.


A definition of politics tells us:

Politics is the process by which individuals or relatively small groups attempt to exert influence over the actions of an organization. Although the term is most commonly applied to behavior within governments, politics is observed in many human (and many non-human) group interactions, including corporate, academic, and religious institutions.


How and Why for this Political Statement:

AM exact statement at the BOTT conference, January 16, 2007 was:

"That is why I'm for Television. And that is why I'm for the United Pentecostal Church putting it around the world. If we're on the internet with 4.5 million pornography sites, it's not a Holiness issue- it's an Evangelism issue. Revival. In Acts 2:38."


To understand the political nature of this statement, let’s examine the following:

1. The Venue – Because of the Times is a conference that is almost over 3 decades old.
It is the most popular venue for ministers in the organization – its always SOLD OUT. A veritable Who’s Who attends this conference. Almost every significant board official makes an attempt to attend and there is a waiting list for those who wish to attend but could not register in time.

Hence, Mangun knows that those attending exert influence also and that his comments would ring across “Pentecost”. A term used by the culture of this organization to mean across the organization.


2. The divisiveness of the issue is on ‘every one’s mind’. It’s the number one issue on the fellowship's conscience -- to keep the unity of the brethren. Resolution 6 almost led to a collective walk-out by hardliners who were willing to throw their cards at the platform if the resolution for TV advertising passed.

Also over 60 ministers have dropped their licenses in the last few months as reported by the Forward, their ministerial publication -- with more projected to come in the next few months proceeding the vote on the resolution at General Conference in Tampa.

Both sides on the issue know that Resolution 6 has far more reaching effects on the future of the organization, especially in the area of holiness standards and church protocol.

Hence Mangun, undoubtedly, knew that making a statement for or against Resolution 6 would be controversial. Yet, he did anyway.


3. Mangun was reportedly scheduled to speak on the floor at General Conference but because the issue was shelved he was unable to state his views on the topic. He now had his opportunity to make a statement at BOTT.


4. Mangun’s comments at BOTT, prior to making the statement show political calculation.

A. Mangun spent most of his time building to this culminating statement by stressing the importance of spreading the Acts 2:38 message. He knows, as everyone knows, that the unifying banner for most in the organization is the Acts 2:38 message.

He worked the crowd by sharing his commitment to the widely-accepted soteriological message.

He cleverly weaves his commitment to the heritage, via projecting pictures of his dad’s pioneering church, sharing his dad’s inculcation of the message into him, and the almost robotic recitation of the scripture by his choir put the crowd into a frenzied mood of solidarity.

With everyone, in the crowd, ‘on board’, he drops his bomb.

B. AM sought to share the avenues of outreach his church uses, bus ministry, alcohol and addiction ministries, their use of mass print media and webcasting. He did so by sharing how much money was spent in ’06 on these ministries.

This reading from his church’s financial statements really wasn’t necessary at this venue but clearly he wanted to underscore the commitment he has for evangelism and that he feels that the movement needs to have it also.

C. In a sublte reference, he reminds the UPCI that his church contributes hundreds of thousands of dollars to the org. He only makes reference of the contributions for 2006, but everyone in that room knows that the church in Alexandria has been a top 3 contributors for years in all of the org’s national offerings.

Why bring this up? He could be implying that the org must spend its dollars wisely and that it would be wise to spend it on TV advertising.
Or that the org should not interfere with how the local church spends it's money.

__________________________________________________ ___________


Interestingly, some have construed his comments as non-political in nature and some have argued that his comments at BOTT don’t reflect a definite position.

I can’t see how.

Surely, he has made a choice in this debate and has decided to be vocal and influential in the process.

Was this ethical? Right or wrong? I 'll let you decide.

Lastly, I leave you with these thoughts to ponder:

- Mangun makes a conditional statement made by many pro-TV advertising proponents by arguing if we share space on the internet with 4.5 pornography sites ... and it's not a Holiness issue ...then we should go on TV.

- Many have rumored that he is a candidate to be the next General Superintendent of this organization. Did this play a role in his political calculation at BOTT?

- Having taken a definite postision ,what if Resolution 6 does not pass, what will AM do?

- Did he take a risk in taking a position? Or does he already 'know' the score?

- Why take a political risk especially if you have a thriving church and are successfully using many avenues of evangelism already? Is this just about TV advertising for AM?

- How effective was his argument to separate this issue from being about Holiness? What advantages are there to make this just an Evangelism and not a Holiness issue? Is this how the establishment will pursue this issue to keep the unity? If this is the strategy, will it work?

Dan...........this post was totally uncalled for..........

































it is just waaaaay to long to read!!!:girlnails

You did say this as a joke...RIGHT????:lol :ursofunny :ursofunny :ursofunny :killinme :killinme :killinme

This is too much! LOLOL
Bro...AM is me and Drama Queens Pastor...He is in NO WAY a con...and if you were to give a albel...in the UPCI he is a Liberal.
Thank The LORD!

You are for sure Dead Wrong...as a matter of fact...the man that has already been voted in to become Sr. Pastor when AM turns 65 is more con than AM..

How old is AM now???

IAM not saying this in a bad way.....but I needed a laugh today.......AM is a good MOD......Somebody go tell SE that he and AM are on the same side of this issue.......

BTW ....... I love and appreciate them both....but that was funny.....

I see him as a con, but I see what you are saying. By con I mean totally for standards etc...I have heard him preach that way. As far as some other thing he is Lib. He is in an interesting position though. Because of the size of the church and BOTT alot of people cling to him. Cons and Libs alike. He may be the very best person to "bridge" the gap. Maybe I was wrong, maybe he is the middle ground. I can not say that I am surpirsed if this happens.

A few BOTT's ago Morton Bustard prophesied that AM would be elevated to leadership. Not sure what that mean/means. It might be if there is a split he may rise up to lead? God only knows. It would be hard not to follow him, I love the man!

I guess I should have said on some issues. Man you guys are into kicking others in the shins huh? :hypercoffee

Anthony Mangun is a liberal with deep standards roots, and that was when he was our pastor in the late seventies, in Texas.:2cents

maybe that is why I like him so much is because I am a Lib too

JT, dude, AM a con? I'd have said more moderate to left of center, but not a con. Remember, even moderates and left of center folks believe in dress standards.

AM has video recording, projecting, fx lighting and other things that forbid him from being joined to that exclusive brotherhood called con.

Also, AM will never be voted in as a General Superintendent. He'd shake things up too much. While he's an apostle that would lead this organization into incredible revival - I think too many people are afraid of him. He'd end up calling for resignations of HQ officials who haven't won a soul or committed themselves to outreach.

The UPC isn't ready for AM as its GS.

Did you miss the part where I went back and agreed he is a mod? Guess so. I am not sying AM would be voted in as GS, but I am saying there was a prophecy said over him. But never said anthing about GS. But if there is a split I could see him leading the mods and Libs. That would be cool. But not GS in its current state.

That's what was said about Bishop KH when he came in .... the only major head to roll is now seated in the diocesan seat in Virginia ....

and everything is still business as usual ...

Old News.....got wind of his statements that night. Caused some controversy too....but.......that is in the past.

You sound pretty confident with this statement.

But I'm not convinced.

Hmmm . . . as much as I like Bishop H, I didn't think he'd do much as GS. IMO he's no AM. Perhaps it's just my experience going to all the BOTTs years ago and not really hearing Bishop H preach much.

What I heard when Bishop H was voted in was fear that the UPC would tilt liberal and lose its holiness. Not that he would shake down HQ and lead towards revival. Quite the opposite is what I heard.

Did you hear Jesus is Lord!

A FRINGE_NUTTER can be on the fringe of either side and is considered a fringe nutter by both sides. Why talk of CONS and LIBS? Just be a FRINGE_NUTTER like me. :macho

IN my neck of the woods, ccn, he is a liberal - in ULTRA CON TERRITORY.
You are right in your last statement, sonny.

I like him too, he is a commited man after the heart of God.

58

Television already has and continues to have an insidious and steady negative influence on the minds and hearts of people wearing away moral and spiritual values and consecration.

Might as well use what has helped and aided the moral decay of several generations now to help and aid the winning and recovery of lost souls ........ and for the spreading of Truth and Gospel. Television is already in the Church anyhow. Probably the majority of homes in the apostolic movement such as it is anymore have one or more.

The root of whatever problems might come as a result of pastors .... (and I still doubt very many will actually take advantage of the medium to any great extent anyhow) .... getting involved in TV ministry is already in the Church ..... namely pride and arrogance.

As I've stated numerous times I do NOT believe television is the answer to world evangelism or the most effective way to do the work of evangelism either or to get the truth of the Gospel to people but it is ONE way and since it's already here, part of the church and woven into the fabric of our culture and a "fact" of life then might as well use it if a person feels led to do so as a method of dispersing salt and light into a dark dreadful world that is getting only darker and dreadfuller by the day.

As Paul said....... the method or the means or the "who" is not the most important thing. Most important is that the Gospel is preached!!

TV ministry is a different and difficult avenue, and I doubt that many OPs are anywhere near equipped to handle it. So much current Christian programming is missing the mark in my opinion. It is not preaching to the choir, so you better know it is God leading before taking the plunge.