Originally Posted by Sister Alvear (Post 947050)

NO SON... Grace is what we receive even though we are not worthy. Only through His grace and His grace alone can we look upon He who is pure and holy in all things.

I understand some people are scared of the word grace but it is the best thing that ever could happen to us...We hit the jackpot! How could you or I ever buy or do anything worthy of salvation?

I am sure we condemn ourselves more than our Father does many times for he remembers we are flesh...sometimes we try to be gods....


We must always remember we must balance the love of God with God's justice and holiness. He loves the sinner but hates sin... human efforts alone to earn salvation are an impossibly...yet faith without works is dead...what may seem to be a paradox to some becomes crystal clear as we learn more about Christ.


When we read about grace it is often difficult it is for humans to accept...



Danny, we all struggle with their real or imagined inadequacies yet the Bible tells us.. Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 4:14-16)


Grace does not give us a pass to sin BUT if we sin we have an advocate...In the Old Testament it was an eye for an eye…Today thank God for grace and mercy…and the more mercy we have with and on others the more God will show to us.

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear (Post 947050)

NO SON... Grace is what we receive even though we are not worthy. Only through His grace and His grace alone can we look upon He who is pure and holy in all things.

I understand some people are scared of the word grace but it is the best thing that ever could happen to us...We hit the jackpot! How could you or I ever buy or do anything worthy of salvation?

I am sure we condemn ourselves more than our Father does many times for he remembers we are flesh...sometimes we try to be gods....


We must always remember we must balance the love of God with God's justice and holiness. He loves the sinner but hates sin... human efforts alone to earn salvation are an impossibly...yet faith without works is dead...what may seem to be a paradox to some becomes crystal clear as we learn more about Christ.


When we read about grace it is often difficult it is for humans to accept...



Danny, we all struggle with their real or imagined inadequacies yet the Bible tells us.. Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 4:14-16)


Grace does not give us a pass to sin BUT if we sin we have an advocate...In the Old Testament it was an eye for an eye…Today thank God for grace and mercy…and the more mercy we have with and on others the more God will show to us.

Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave (Post 947081)

Beautiful.

We are given the grace of the Almighty God and still spend endless amounts of energy towards excluding others from God's grace, because "they obviously don't deserve it". Both sides are guilty. If folks spent more time lifting each other up, instead of poking each other down....

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear (Post 947050)

NO SON... Grace is what we receive even though we are not worthy. Only through His grace and His grace alone can we look upon He who is pure and holy in all things.

I understand some people are scared of the word grace but it is the best thing that ever could happen to us...We hit the jackpot! How could you or I ever buy or do anything worthy of salvation?

I am sure we condemn ourselves more than our Father does many times for he remembers we are flesh...sometimes we try to be gods....


We must always remember we must balance the love of God with God's justice and holiness. He loves the sinner but hates sin... human efforts alone to earn salvation are an impossibly...yet faith without works is dead...what may seem to be a paradox to some becomes crystal clear as we learn more about Christ.


When we read about grace it is often difficult it is for humans to accept...



Danny, we all struggle with their real or imagined inadequacies yet the Bible tells us.. Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 4:14-16)


Grace does not give us a pass to sin BUT if we sin we have an advocate...In the Old Testament it was an eye for an eye…Today thank God for grace and mercy…and the more mercy we have with and on others the more God will show to us.

Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave (Post 947081)

Beautiful.

We are given the grace of the Almighty God and still spend endless amounts of energy towards excluding others from God's grace, because "they obviously don't deserve it". Both sides are guilty. If folks spent more time lifting each other up, instead of poking each other down....

Originally Posted by Barb (Post 947088)

And there ya have it, folks...!!

Originally Posted by Barb (Post 947088)

And there ya have it, folks...!!

Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave (Post 947123)

I'm not sure what we really have here, Barb.

In reading the blog, it's an OK article I guess, except that it contradicts itself and falls short. It would rather focus on chapter 5 when it clearly references how that chapter 6 shows examples of how a christian should conduct themselves once God's grace is recieved.

One comment by "Lee" says this:

Originally Posted by Maximilian (Post 947159)

How so?

And maybe the "falling short" is all part of the pun intended for a blog talking about grace? :toofunny

Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave (Post 947166)

Well, perhaps. But, I guess as I read it, it seems as if the article is written from a bias wishing to demonstrate that the bible teaches us that grace comes without conditions and that a believer has no responsibility to live a godly life without sin after he is given said grace. As Paul would say, "God forbid".

Originally Posted by Maximilian (Post 947168)

Actually, did Paul qualify grace, or qualify the actions of the believer? :)

And his qualifications were only necessary because of the immensity of the nature of grace that he preached (and of course appeasing the fresh-from-legalism curiosity of his audience).

In other words, Paul didn't qualify that Grace was not effective if we didn't behave as such-and-such. He said it in such a way that he had to follow-up: "Does this mean (what I just told you) that we should keep sinning?" The only reason why one would jump to that conclusion is because a) Grace came regardless of our deserving works and b) the implications of that message probably overwhelmed those familiar with controlling and earning their own way.

So the author would be correct. Grace came without pre-conditions.

Grace radically changes the sinner. When we abort from Grace and turn to moralism and self-righteousness, we find people trying to sleuth there way through it all, hypocrisy, etc... But when a man realizes his full debt and is relieved for no reason except love, the response is usually equally gracious. This is why I call sanctification "gracious living."

Originally Posted by Maximilian (Post 947168)

Actually, did Paul qualify grace, or qualify the actions of the believer? :)

And his qualifications were only necessary because of the immensity of the nature of grace that he preached (and of course appeasing the fresh-from-legalism curiosity of his audience).

In other words, Paul didn't qualify that Grace was not effective if we didn't behave as such-and-such. He said it in such a way that he had to follow-up: "Does this mean (what I just told you) that we should keep sinning?" The only reason why one would jump to that conclusion is because a) Grace came regardless of our deserving works and b) the implications of that message probably overwhelmed those familiar with controlling and earning their own way.

So the author would be correct. Grace came without pre-conditions.

Grace radically changes the sinner. When we abort from Grace and turn to moralism and self-righteousness, we find people trying to sleuth there way through it all, hypocrisy, etc... But when a man realizes his full debt and is relieved for no reason except love, the response is usually equally gracious. This is why I call sanctification "gracious living."

Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave (Post 947178)

So, we agree that certain behaviours should accompany all belivers. Yes, grace comes free and without conditions. But, walking in grace does require some things. It most certainly doesn't require legalism and I am not suggesting that, but it does require that we follow after righteousness as written in the next chapter. Thus, my view that the article falls short.